454 peanut port combination

[Kr1st1an]

Hi,
Im Kristian from Sweden, im all new in engine building. Im trying to read, search and learn all i can. Here in sweden isnt very much knowledge and i've noone here to talk ideas with, well for sure here is but noone i know. Learning and doing it here from Sweden makes it alot harder. For example ordering wrong part is very expensive. I know there are other threads as this one, but they all end up not being completed and they are often outdated with no component list.

The car the engine should fit in is a 1988 c3500 dually regular cab. It will mostly be driven for fun, not much towing. But i still want the engine to handle the truck. So rather low rpm torque than 6000rpm HP. I have no torque or hp goal, my goal with this build is to learn how everything is put togheter and works. And of course if we can end up with alittle more than 230hp ill get extra happy.

You must be registered for see images attach

So far ive watched John Kinslow Jr Youtube tutoral, so the engine is all dissamble and i have a shop waiting for me to say what size pistons im gonna use.
Here is a link to Dropbox with all pictures from dissamble.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jy0fz9alq6uuxo1/AACMgVNUjYd5EJq00sUIsS0ja?dl=0
The heads casting number is 14092360, there is also a picture of this.
The Mark IV block is a 4 bolt main. The engine belongs to the 1988 truck with around 40k miles on it.

So,what is it i want? I want, if possible and if its OK help with a complete shopping list (Rotating assambly, intake, cam, springs and valves for the heads? fuel system Holley or FiTech vs carb, headers etc etc). If its possible tho to extremly expensive shipping and toll costs to order everything from one place, i guess Summitracing is the most complete supplyer? As time goes on i add components to a buy list and post it here to get your professional input

Im totally open for all ideas, but my thought is that it would be fun to find a 496 stroker kit that would fit with the peanut heads. What would be good for me is to find a fully balanced rotating assambly, so i dont need to balance it here in Sweden, balancing cost is around 600dollar here.
If its possible i want to keep stock converter and stall speed. Maybe a CR 9.5:1 would work?
So if someone want to recommend a rotating assambly we can go from there. Any help is much appreciated.

Best regards / Kristian

 

[df2x4]

I'm no help as I've never even owned a 454, sorry. I just wanted to say welcome to the site from the USA and you have a great looking truck! I really like the paint colors.

 

[Schurkey]

1. Any emissions requirements you need to meet?
2. Peanut-port heads are TOTAL TURDS unless you have them ported by someone with experience in making them work. The best guy I know for this would be VORTECPRO from the www.chevelles.com web site.
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/members/37912-vortecpro.html
He has a business building engines, has a great reputation on the Chevelle forum.
Given the cost of shipping, plus the cost of the porting and machine work, I suspect you'd be better-off with aftermarket aluminum oval-port heads.
3. Look for a "step-nose" roller cam that can use the OEM GM thrust plate. It's WAY better than installing aftermarket-style cam thrust button. You will need a step-nose timing set, as the bolt pattern on the step-nose cam is smaller than on the older cams.
4. You also want the iron distributor-drive gear on the back of that camshaft. This is often listed as the "Everwear" option. They take an iron gear, and press/pin it to the steel cam core. That way you don't need a composite or bronze distributor gear.
5. You may want a fuel pump lobe on the cam. If you're never going to use an engine-driven fuel pump, (because the fuel pump will be electric) you won't need the fuel pump lobe.
6. Look at the head-gasket surfaces of the block, and the old head gaskets. You'll want to determine if the block is set up for series-flow cooling. MOST but not all Mark IV blocks are set up for series-flow. Series-flow is perfectly adequate...but converting to parallel-flow is simple and easy, and results in more-even coolant temperature throughout the block and heads. Parallel-flow blocks have three additional coolant holes about 1/2" diameter very near the head-bolt holes between the cylinders on the lower side of the gasket surface. If you have the holes in the block and head gasket, the block is already parallel-flow, and you'll want to assure you have parallel-flow head gaskets when the engine goes back together. If you don't have the three extra coolant holes between the cylinders, it's easy to drill them. Typically there's one hole, but it isn't in proper position so you'd drill two and oblong the existing one.
7. Regardless of your compression ratio, pay attention to the quench/squish distance. Cheap pistons often have too-little height from pin to the flat part of the crown, leading to excess piston-to-deck clearance. This promotes lazy combustion, and detonation.

 

[RichLo]

Welcome from Wisconsin, USA.

For the build, Summit Racing is a very good source for parts, esspecially since you need to only pay for 1 shipment rather than multiple. And really the only limitation is how much money you can afford to throw at it.

I would start by searching engine kits, something like this quick search:
https://www.summitracing.com/search...N=4294949512+4294951398+4294951382+4294882321

try to look for 'forged' and 'balanced'

Then start researching cam specs to find a cam with the right power band for your needs and one that will match the cubic inches and compression ratio that you decide one for the rotating assembly and head specs.

 

[Kr1st1an]

1. Any emissions requirements you need to meet?
2. Peanut-port heads are TOTAL TURDS unless you have them ported by someone with experience in making them work. The best guy I know for this would be VORTECPRO from the www.chevelles.com web site.
https://www.chevelles.com/forums/members/37912-vortecpro.html
He has a business building engines, has a great reputation on the Chevelle forum.
Given the cost of shipping, plus the cost of the porting and machine work, I suspect you'd be better-off with aftermarket aluminum oval-port heads.
3. Look for a "step-nose" roller cam that can use the OEM GM thrust plate. It's WAY better than installing aftermarket-style cam thrust button. You will need a step-nose timing set, as the bolt pattern on the step-nose cam is smaller than on the older cams.
4. You also want the iron distributor-drive gear on the back of that camshaft. This is often listed as the "Everwear" option. They take an iron gear, and press/pin it to the steel cam core. That way you don't need a composite or bronze distributor gear.
5. You may want a fuel pump lobe on the cam. If you're never going to use an engine-driven fuel pump, (because the fuel pump will be electric) you won't need the fuel pump lobe.
6. Look at the head-gasket surfaces of the block, and the old head gaskets. You'll want to determine if the block is set up for series-flow cooling. MOST but not all Mark IV blocks are set up for series-flow. Series-flow is perfectly adequate...but converting to parallel-flow is simple and easy, and results in more-even coolant temperature throughout the block and heads. Parallel-flow blocks have three additional coolant holes about 1/2" diameter very near the head-bolt holes between the cylinders on the lower side of the gasket surface. If you have the holes in the block and head gasket, the block is already parallel-flow, and you'll want to assure you have parallel-flow head gaskets when the engine goes back together. If you don't have the three extra coolant holes between the cylinders, it's easy to drill them. Typically there's one hole, but it isn't in proper position so you'd drill two and oblong the existing one.
7. Regardless of your compression ratio, pay attention to the quench/squish distance. Cheap pistons often have too-little height from pin to the flat part of the crown, leading to excess piston-to-deck clearance. This promotes lazy combustion, and detonation.

Hi thanks for your answer!

Answers for your questions for me:

1: No, not really

2: Well, ive read alot and from what i can see on dyno sheets theese peanut heads make same hp and even more torque than big ovals or rectangular up to 4500rpm, and im never gonna go higher rpm than 4500..


3,4,5 and 7: Thanks for the info!

6: please have alook at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jy0fz9alq6uuxo1/AACMgVNUjYd5EJq00sUIsS0ja?dl=0 and maybe you can tell me what kind i got?

Welcome from Wisconsin, USA.

For the build, Summit Racing is a very good source for parts, esspecially since you need to only pay for 1 shipment rather than multiple. And really the only limitation is how much money you can afford to throw at it.

I would start by searching engine kits, something like this quick search:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/department/engines-components/make/chevrolet/engine-family/chevy-big-block-gen-v/section/engine-kits-rotating-assemblies?N=4294949512+4294951398+4294951382+4294882321

try to look for 'forged' and 'balanced'

Then start researching cam specs to find a cam with the right power band for your needs and one that will match the cubic inches and compression ratio that you decide one for the rotating assembly and head specs.

Hi, thanks for the answer! Yes, ive done all thoose searches. And thats the thing, there comes 100 diffrent kits when serching that and im starting to feel that i wont in the near future be able to pick the correct one. Feel free to recommend me one kit and one cam that will fit me needs. As i said just some more hp and torque than stock. Thanks in advance!

@Schurkey Feel free to recommend a aftermarket head, rotating assembly and cam kit

Thanks in advance!

 

[techinspector1]

OK, here is what you said...…
It will mostly be driven for fun, not much towing. But I still want the engine to handle the truck. So rather low rpm torque than 6000rpm HP.

The key to building a low-rpm, high-torque motor like you are envisioning is to use a large cubic inch motor such as a 454 and a set of heads with diminutive intake ports like the peanut port heads. This combination makes an excellent "grunt" motor for a heavy, low-speed vehicle if you keep the cam timing on the mild side and match it up with a static compression ratio of about 9.50:1 to build good cylinder pressure and keep detonation on pump gas under control with a squish/quench of 0.035" to 0.045. A stroker crank was mentioned, but I am of the opinion that if you choose the correct parts, you will not need more than 454 cubic inches to generate over 500 ft/lbs of torque and I don't think you will need any more than that for a street-driven truck. If you choose your new pistons carefully, they will be about the same weight as the ones you are replacing and balancing beyond the stock balancing that is in the motor now will not be necessary. Please read carefully through ALL of the attached article and then we can discuss this project further.

I am not an EFI kind of guy, except for the econo-box that I use as a daily driver and that I never **** with. When it comes to hot rodding, I like a carburetor and specifically a Rochester Quadrajet sitting on a dual-plane, peanut port runner intake manifold such as the Weiand 8122WND. I would source the Quadrajet from Cliff High Performance...……..
https://cliffshighperformance.com/
Limit fuel pressure to 5 psi max at the bowl inlet. More pressure than that can overpower the needle and seat in the bowl and allow the fuel pump to blow raw fuel into the intake manifold, creating a tuning nightmare that you won't be able to correct until you lower the pressure to 5 psi. More pressure will make more power in an EFI system, but all it will do in a carbureted system is to cause you headaches.

If a fellow wanted some pee-your-pants power over and above that which is generated by the naturally-aspirated combination, he could bolt on a plate nitrous system for an additional 150 hp shot.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1210-how-to-prep-for-your-first-150hp-nitrous-shot/

Your stock "STACK" of reciprocating parts should measure 1.645" for the piston compression height, 6.135" for the rod length and 2.000" for the crank radius, making a stack of 9.780". The standard block deck height of the BBC block should be 9.800". This should leave a piston deck height (measurement from the crown of the piston immediately above the top ring to the flat part of the block deck where the heads bolt on, with the piston at top dead center) of 0.020". This will work fine with a steel shim gasket, but if you want to use a composition gasket, which is thicker, you will need to cut the block decks to arrive at a new "zero" block deck dimension of 9.780". This will put the piston crown exactly even with the block deck and will allow the thickness of the head gasket to describe the squish/quench. Personally, with this type gasket, I would choose a thickness of 0.039-0.040". Cutting the block in this manner will set the motor up for aluminum heads later on, because steel shim gaskets will "fret" the aluminum heads, while the composition gaskets will cushion the aluminum heads and protect them from fretting. So, I very strongly urge you to cut the decks to zero while you have the motor apart and use a composition gasket.

Some piston manufacturers, such as Keith Black and Wiseco, manufacture their pistons with a piston compression height that is taller than some other manufacturers. This feature comes in handy when you are cutting the block decks to zero, because you can cut them less to come to zero because the piston is taller than stock. On the flip side, some manufacturers make their pistons with a shorter than stock piston compression height to allow the machine shop to cut the decks to flatten them for good sealing and still have the same piston deck height for use with steel head gaskets, like stock from the factory.

You are now tasked with weighing your piston, rings and pin before you go on a quest for new oversize pistons. Keep the weight the same and you will not have to re-balance. If you find pistons that are a little heavy, your machine shop can drill the pin bosses with a large diameter drill bit or end mill to bring the weight down to equal with your stock pistons. Also, you will need to coordinate the pop-up dome on the piston with the combustion chamber volume to arrive at a static compression ratio of about 9.50:1. Then we will choose a cam to make the whole mess work properly. I will help you with all the math, but it is up to you to provide values to work with.

While you are shopping around, have your machine shop to put a good 5-angle valve job on the heads. Also, have someone cc the heads or do it yourself. We'll need the exact combustion chamber volume to figure the static compression ratio so we can choose a cam and torque converter to match.


.

 

[Schurkey]

Yes, that's a parallel-flow cooling system. Be sure to buy head gaskets that are intended for parallel-flow cooling.

Consider re-using the existing fuel injection. No reason that isn't sufficient for the RPM range you're looking for. May need to tune it to accept a different camshaft.

What size valves are in your cylinder heads? I didn't see a photo of the combustion chambers.

 

[techinspector1]

I did a little work for you concerning static compression ratio....
Using a Fel-Pro head gasket, Summit part number FEL-17046.....
Figuring your combustion chambers at 116 cc's.....(many thanks to Bob Parmenter at ClubHotRod.com for coming up with the volume of these heads)

I'm figuring all these pistons at +0.030" overbore....

Keith Black Hypereutectic pistons, Summit part number UEM-KB203-030
Compression distance 1.645"
Dome height 0.133"
Dome volume -12.0 cc's
Rings 5/64 / 5/64" /3/16
Static compression ratio 9.33:1
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb203-030

SRP Forged pistons, Summit part number SRP-141635-S
Compression distance 1.645"
Dome volume -14.0 cc's
Rings 5/64 / 5/64 / 3/16
Static compression ratio 9.47:1
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/srp-141635-8 (domes are not as big as the photo)

Speed Pro Forged pistons, Summit part number SLP-WL2399NF30
Compression distance 1.645"
Dome Height 0.095"
Rings 5/64 / 5/64 / 3/16
Static compression ratio 9.46:1
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-wl2399nf30

And again, hoping that these pistons are a little heavier than your stock units so that a minimum of weight removal will bring them to the same weight as your stock pistons.

You will likely want to look around and see what pistons you can come up with too.

While I'm thinking about pushrods, here is the procedure to determine correct length.....

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I would use only a hydraulic roller cam in this application and I like a grind something like this one...…
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-cl120235-12

This motor will want full-length headers, 1 3/4" minimum diameter. Choose headers with a minimum flange thickness of 3/8". Thinner flanges will warp up due to the heat and spit out the gaskets. Use a 14" diameter x 4" tall air filter assembly so that the motor can breathe. I would set the base timing at the crank at 14 degrees BTDC and add 22 to 24 degrees centrifugal advance in the weights. Use the following information to set up your vacuum advance...……

FACT AND FICTION CONCERNING VACUUM ADVANCE....

• The following article reviews the basics of distributor tuning quite well and has worked for years and years, based on sound engineering principals. I thought it would be helpful for some to review these prior to hacking up their distributors. Hacking up your distributor to compensate for a poorly tuned, misapplied or defective carburetor is not very sound engineering, for a street application or otherwise.

• Here's an interesting article on vacuum advance written by a GM engineer:

• As many of you are aware, timing and vacuum advance is one of my favorite subjects, as I was involved in the development of some of those systems in my GM days and I understand it. Many people don't, as there has been very little written about it anywhere that makes sense, and as a result, a lot of folks are under the misunderstanding that vacuum advance somehow compromises performance. Nothing could be further *from the truth. I finally sat down the other day and wrote up a primer on the subject, with the objective of helping more folks to understand vacuum advance and how it works together with initial timing and centrifugal advance to optimize all-around operation and performance. I have this as a Word document if anyone wants it sent to them - I've cut-and-pasted it here; it's long, but hopefully it's also informative.

• TIMING AND VACUUM ADVANCE 101

• The most important concept to understand is that lean mixtures, such as at idle and steady highway cruise, take longer to burn than rich mixtures; idle in particular, as idle mixture is affected by exhaust gas dilution. This requires that lean mixtures have "the fire lit" earlier in the compression cycle (spark timing advanced), allowing more burn time so that peak cylinder pressure is reached just after TDC for peak efficiency and reduced exhaust gas temperature (wasted combustion energy). Rich mixtures, on the other hand, burn faster than lean mixtures, so they need to have "the fire lit" later in the compression cycle (spark timing retarded slightly) so maximum cylinder pressure is still achieved at the same point after TDC as with the lean mixture, for maximum efficiency.

• The centrifugal advance system in a distributor advances spark timing purely as a function of engine rpm (irrespective of engine load or operating conditions), with the amount of advance and the rate at which it comes in determined by the weights and springs on top of the autocam mechanism. The amount of advance added by the distributor, combined with initial static timing, is "total timing" (i.e., the 34-36 degrees at high rpm that most SBC's like). Vacuum advance has absolutely nothing to do with total timing or performance, as when the throttle is opened, manifold vacuum drops essentially to zero, and the vacuum advance drops out entirely; it has no part in the "total timing" equation.

• At idle, the engine needs additional spark advance in order to fire that lean, diluted mixture earlier in order to develop maximum cylinder pressure at the proper point, so the vacuum advance can (connected to manifold vacuum, not "ported" vacuum - more on that aberration later) is activated by the high manifold vacuum, and adds about 15 degrees of spark advance, on top of the initial static timing setting (i.e., if your static timing is at 10 degrees, at idle it's actually around 25 degrees with the vacuum advance connected). The same thing occurs at steady-state highway cruise; the mixture is lean, takes longer to burn, the load on the engine is low, the manifold vacuum is high, so the *vacuum advance is again deployed, and if you had a timing light set up so you could see the balancer as you were going down the highway, you'd see about 50 degrees advance (10 degrees initial, 20-25 degrees from the centrifugal advance, and 15 degrees from the vacuum advance) at steady-state cruise (it only takes about 40 horsepower to cruise at 50mph).

• When you accelerate, the mixture is instantly enriched (by the accelerator pump, power valve, etc.), burns faster, doesn't need the additional spark advance, and when the throttle plates open, manifold vacuum drops, and the vacuum advance can returns to zero, retarding the spark timing back to what is provided by the initial static timing plus the centrifugal advance provided by the distributor at that engine rpm; the vacuum advance doesn't come back into play until you back off the gas and manifold vacuum increases again as you return to steady-state cruise, when the mixture again becomes lean.

• The key difference is that centrifugal advance (in the distributor autocam via weights and springs) is purely rpm-sensitive; nothing changes it except changes in rpm. Vacuum advance, on the other hand, responds to engine load and rapidly-changing operating conditions, providing the correct degree of spark advance at any point in time based on engine load, to deal with both lean and rich mixture conditions. By today's terms, this was a relatively crude mechanical system, but it did a good job of optimizing engine efficiency, throttle response, fuel *economy, and idle cooling, with absolutely ZERO effect on wide-open throttle performance, as vacuum advance is inoperative under wide-open throttle conditions. In modern cars with computerized engine controllers, all those sensors and the controller change both mixture and spark timing 50 to 100 times per second, and we don't even HAVE a distributor any more - it's all electronic.

• Now, to the widely-misunderstood manifold-vs.-ported vacuum aberration. After 30-40 years of controlling vacuum advance with full manifold vacuum, along came emissions requirements, years before catalytic converter technology had been developed, and all manner of crude band-aid systems were developed to try and reduce hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust stream. One of these band-aids was "ported spark", which moved the vacuum pickup orifice in the carburetor venturi from below the throttle plate (where it was exposed to full manifold vacuum at idle) to above the throttle plate, where it saw no manifold vacuum at all at idle. This meant the vacuum advance was inoperative at idle (retarding spark timing from its optimum value), and these applications also had VERY low initial static timing (usually 4 degrees or less, and some actually were set at 2 degrees AFTER TDC). This was done in order to increase exhaust gas temperature (due to "lighting the fire late") to improve the effectiveness of the "afterburning" of hydrocarbons by the air injected into the exhaust manifolds by the A.I.R. system; as a result, these engines ran like crap, and an enormous amount of wasted heat energy was transferred through the exhaust port walls into the coolant, causing them to run hot at idle - cylinder pressure fell off, engine temperatures went up, combustion efficiency went down the drain, and fuel economy went down with it.

• If you look at the centrifugal advance calibrations for these "ported spark, late-timed" engines, you'll see that instead of having 20 degrees of advance, they had up to 34 degrees of advance in the distributor, in order to get back to the 34-36 degrees "total timing" at high rpm wide-open throttle to get some of the performance back. The vacuum advance still worked at steady-state highway cruise (lean mixture = low emissions), but it was inoperative at idle, which caused all manner of problems - "ported vacuum" was strictly an early, pre-*converter crude emissions strategy, and nothing more.

• What about the Harry high-school non-vacuum advance polished billet "whizbang" distributors you see in the Summit and Jeg's catalogs? They're JUNK on a street-driven car, but some people keep buying them because they're "race car" parts, so they must be "good for my car" - they're NOT. "Race cars" run at wide-open throttle, rich mixture, full load, and high rpm all the time, so they don't need a system (vacuum advance) to deal with the full range of driving conditions encountered in street operation. Anyone driving a street-driven car without manifold-connected vacuum advance is sacrificing idle cooling, throttle response, engine efficiency, and fuel economy, probably because they don't understand what vacuum advance is, how it works, and what it's for - there are lots of long-time experienced "mechanics" who don't understand the principles and operation of vacuum advance either, so they're not alone.

• Vacuum advance calibrations are different between stock engines and modified engines, especially if you have a lot of cam and have relatively low manifold vacuum at idle. Most stock vacuum advance cans aren’t fully-deployed until they see about 15” Hg. Manifold vacuum, so those cans don’t work very well on a modified engine; with less than 15” Hg. at a rough idle, the stock can will “dither” in and out in response to the rapidly-changing manifold vacuum, constantly varying the amount of vacuum advance, which creates an unstable idle. Modified engines with more cam that generate less than 15” Hg. of vacuum at idle need a vacuum advance can that’s fully-deployed at least 1”, preferably 2” of vacuum less than idle vacuum level so idle advance is solid and stable; the Echlin #VC-1810 advance can (about $10 at NAPA) provides the same amount of advance as the stock can (15 degrees), but is fully-deployed at only 8” of vacuum, so there is no variation in idle timing even with a stout cam.

• For peak engine performance, driveability, idle cooling and efficiency in a street-driven car, you need vacuum advance, connected to full manifold vacuum. Absolutely. Positively. Don't ask Summit or Jeg's about it – they don’t understand it, they're on commission, and they want to sell "race car" parts.

• Distributor Vacuum Advance Control units
• Specs and facts for GM Distributors

• by Lars Grimsrud
• SVE Automotive Restoration
• Musclecar, Collector & Exotic Auto Repair & Restoration
• Broomfield, CO Rev. B 8-19-02

 

[TechNova]

Although I have bought a lot form Summit, I use https://www.northernautoparts.com/
for engine kits

 

[techinspector1]

I used Summit only because the OP mentioned Summit.