1999 5.7 350 vortec P0304 cylinder 4 misfire

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Road Trip

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I’m wondering if I just go for it and do the intake manifold gaskets and wait on the heads since they are so expensive.

Greetings socal k1500,

You have certainly done your homework and made (nearly) every reasonable effort to cure
this mystery #4 misfire when climbing hills. Plus you are sharing live data on the issue. And
you dug up that GM TSB (PIP3081 dated 7/23/2004) having to do with these come & go
misfires (particularly from the center cylinders #3/#4/#5/#6) under heavy load.

From my perspective all this shows that you are serious & have what it takes for us to
sort this out once & for all. BTW, you are fortunate in the fact that someone who's already
slogged through a near identical issue has been generously sharing his hard-won first-hand fix.
(@SableSlayer :waytogo:) And being somewhat new you may not realize the proven troubleshooting
experience that @Schurkey brings to the table -- his comments are well worth reading for
comprehension.

****

Given the above, it we were neighbors I'd be telling you that for the expenditure of time, effort,
and cost of a full intake manifold gasket set, for relatively short money (DIY) we could find out
IF curing the underlying 'lean from a leak' issue that the fuel trims are indicating might be just
enough
of a fix in order to avoid stimulating the fault you are experiencing.

Why? Because lean = more heat.

And the SBC has an architectural hot spot that only a very small % of the owners stimulate via
sustained high duty cycle operation. But at the same time which happens to be even easier to hit
when the cooling system is no longer able to move the necessary quantity of BTUs from the coolant
to the air passing through the radiator...which may explain why this is happening to you. (!)

Of course while I'm trying to be a good neighbor & sell you on replacing both upper & lower intake
manifold gaskets and fixing the neglected cooling system, I would at the same time be setting
expectations that this last-gasp reasonable repair effort may or may not be the final fix. But spending
$100 in order to really prove/disprove the need for a "$3800" cylinder head replacement makes
sense to me.

And before I write any more, I'd like to share this photo that helps to explain why that TSB
could explain how an architectural hot spot in the SBC (side by side exhaust valves in the center cylinders)
could cause these exhaust valve stems to grow enough under sustained hot, heavy load to stick in
the corresponding exhaust valve guides:

You must be registered for see images attach

(credit: Unknown. Vortec head gasket failure photo between center cylinders)

After looking at this Vortec cylinder head photo, please re-read reply #9 to this thread. (#4 cylinder missing, but only under heavy load)

And keep in mind that SableSlayer was able to stop the madness by simply fixing the intake manifold gasket. In English,
he cleared the fault before permanent damage requiring $$$$ parts replacement was done. (!)

And also reread reply #14, and try to visualize how it might cure the issue of a cylinder misfire due to a sticky exhaust
valve...especially if the problem disappears once the heavy pulling is over. (TSB PIP3081)

Last but not least, after a fair amount of rabbit holing I came across an 18 year old thread over in the gm-trucks
forum where the problem was observed, the TSB was read, the cylinder heads were removed, and they found
physical proof the exhaust valve/guide clearance was the root cause of his issue: (Cylinder #4 misfire when towing up a grade)
{And to the author's credit he closed the loop by sharing the results...}

PS: Just to show that I'm not part of the anti-Bowtie brigade, I've attached a photo
of a BBC cylinder head showing the symmetrical exhaust port layout that helps prevent
the same kind of hot spot from occurring in 454 engine bays. (Hint: Look up a Mark I 348/409
cylinder head -- were the exhaust valves siamese in the center or symmetrical like the
Mark IV?)

Food for thought. Hoping you are able to address this before the mystery irritating
intermittent issue degrades to constant 7-cylinder sadness. :0)
 

Attachments

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  • BBC symmetrical exhaust head detail -- BB CHEVY 600+HP CAPABLE HEADS 336781 (REFURBISHED BY 25...jpg
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Last edited:

SableSlayer

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Greetings socal k1500,

You have certainly done your homework and made (nearly) every reasonable effort to cure
this mystery #4 misfire when climbing hills. Plus you are sharing live data on the issue. And
you dug up that GM TSB (PIP3081 dated 7/23/2004) having to do with these come & go
misfires (particularly from the center cylinders #3/#4/#5/#6) under heavy load.

From my perspective all this shows that you are serious & have what it takes for us to
sort this out once & for all. BTW, you are fortunate in the fact that someone who's already
slogged through a near identical issue has been generously sharing his hard-won first-hand fix.
(@SableSlayer :waytogo:) And being somewhat new you may not realize the proven troubleshooting
experience that @Schurkey brings to the table -- his comments are well worth reading for
comprehension.

****

Given the above, it we were neighbors I'd be telling you that for the expenditure of time, effort,
and cost of a full intake manifold gasket set, for relatively short money (DIY) we could find out
IF curing the underlying 'lean from a leak' issue that the fuel trims are indicating might be just
enough
of a fix in order to avoid stimulating the fault you are experiencing.

Why? Because lean = more heat.

And the SBC has an architectural hot spot that only a very small % of the owners stimulate via
sustained high duty cycle operation. But at the same time which happens to be even easier to hit
when the cooling system is no longer able to move the necessary quantity of BTUs from the coolant
to the air passing through the radiator...which may explain why this is happening to you. (!)

Of course while I'm trying to be a good neighbor & sell you on replacing both upper & lower intake
manifold gaskets and fixing the neglected cooling system, I would at the same time be setting
expectations that this last-gasp reasonable repair effort may or may not be the final fix. But spending
$100 in order to really prove/disprove the need for a "$3800" cylinder head replacement makes
sense to me.

And before I write any more, I'd like to share this photo that helps to explain why that TSB
could explain how an architectural hot spot in the SBC could cause the exhaust valve
stems in the center cylinder(s) to grow enough under sustained hot, heavy load to stick in
the corresponding exhaust valve guides:

You must be registered for see images attach

(credit: Unknown. Vortec head gasket failure photo between center cylinders)

After looking at this Vortec cylinder head photo, please re-read reply #9 to this thread. (#4 cylinder missing, but only under heavy load)

And keep in mind that SableSlayer was able to stop the madness by simply fixing the intake manifold gasket. In English,
he cleared the fault before permanent damage requiring $$$$ parts replacement was done. (!)

And also reread reply #14, and try to visualize how it might cure the issue of a cylinder misfire due to a sticky exhaust
valve...especially if the problem disappears once the heavy pulling is over. (TSB PIP3081)

Last but not least, after a fair amount of rabbit holing I came across an 18 year old thread over in the gm-trucks
forum where the problem was observed, the TSB was read, the cylinder heads were removed, and they found
physical proof the exhaust valve/guide clearance was the root cause of his issue: (Cylinder #4 misfire when towing up a grade)
{And to the author's credit he closed the loop by sharing the results...}

PS: Just to show that I'm not part of the anti-Bowtie brigade, I've attached a photo
of a BBC cylinder head showing the symmetrical exhaust port layout that helps prevent
the same kind of hot spot from occurring in 454 engine bays. (Hint: Look up a Mark I 348/409
cylinder head -- were the exhaust valves siamese in the center or symmetrical like the
Mark IV?)

Food for thought. Hoping you are able to address this before the mystery irritating
intermittent issue degrades to constant 7-cylinder sadness. :0)
Wow this is a great breakdown! Yeah I am new here but I've been doing automotive work for better part of 25 years since before I was able to drive. I've been running a part-time automotive shop out of my garage for more than a decade so I'm pretty good with a lot of different vehicles. I know these vortecs way too well now!
I chased that intake problem for 3 summers and the miss really only happened when pulling my trailer or on the freeway around 75mph.

The only reason I was hesitant to change the intake gaskets first was due to the previous owner already changing them 10 years back.
Upon removal of the intake there was only 3 bolts on bank 2 holding it down. The rear bolt was completely missing! The 3 that were there took no torque to loosen them either. After replacing the gaskets my miss was gone but within a couple weeks it developed a rod knock.

After removing the oil pan the rod knock was on cylinder 8.
I can't help but think that missing bolt was the cause of that bearing journal going bad especially considering the specific torque sequence that is required that says failure to do so will cause internal engine damage to connecting rod bearings.
When I talked to my friend that I bought this truck from about all that after I replaced the intake gasket his words were "oh yeah I remember a bolt missing but I didn't think it would make that big of a deal" I'm like I've been chasing this for 3 years over that!
Anyways after changing all the connecting rod bearings it's been about 5 months and the truck has never ran better. I replace them with the motor in the vehicle and just jacked it up a bit. Cylinder 8 took a thousandths over bearing to clear it up.
At this point if I have to go any further with it I'm just going to buy a crate engine as I would advise @socal k1500 to look into also instead of just doing the heads. I highly recommend he does the intake gaskets before going any further.

This truck is actually quite the beast. It has monster cooling fans on it, K&n intake, magnaflow high flow cats and a dual pipe magnaflow muffler.
Original owner put in 6 lug 14 bolt axles. It also has a hurricane chip on it in the controls air to fuel ratio I haven't noticed much of an improvement with the chip but the thing is there I need to make sure that it was hooked up correct as it's been ran off of the ambient air temperature sensor.
 

socal k1500

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Greetings socal k1500,

You have certainly done your homework and made (nearly) every reasonable effort to cure
this mystery #4 misfire when climbing hills. Plus you are sharing live data on the issue. And
you dug up that GM TSB (PIP3081 dated 7/23/2004) having to do with these come & go
misfires (particularly from the center cylinders #3/#4/#5/#6) under heavy load.

From my perspective all this shows that you are serious & have what it takes for us to
sort this out once & for all. BTW, you are fortunate in the fact that someone who's already
slogged through a near identical issue has been generously sharing his hard-won first-hand fix.
(@SableSlayer :waytogo:) And being somewhat new you may not realize the proven troubleshooting
experience that @Schurkey brings to the table -- his comments are well worth reading for
comprehension.

****

Given the above, it we were neighbors I'd be telling you that for the expenditure of time, effort,
and cost of a full intake manifold gasket set, for relatively short money (DIY) we could find out
IF curing the underlying 'lean from a leak' issue that the fuel trims are indicating might be just
enough
of a fix in order to avoid stimulating the fault you are experiencing.

Why? Because lean = more heat.

And the SBC has an architectural hot spot that only a very small % of the owners stimulate via
sustained high duty cycle operation. But at the same time which happens to be even easier to hit
when the cooling system is no longer able to move the necessary quantity of BTUs from the coolant
to the air passing through the radiator...which may explain why this is happening to you. (!)

Of course while I'm trying to be a good neighbor & sell you on replacing both upper & lower intake
manifold gaskets and fixing the neglected cooling system, I would at the same time be setting
expectations that this last-gasp reasonable repair effort may or may not be the final fix. But spending
$100 in order to really prove/disprove the need for a "$3800" cylinder head replacement makes
sense to me.

And before I write any more, I'd like to share this photo that helps to explain why that TSB
could explain how an architectural hot spot in the SBC (side by side exhaust valves in the center cylinders)
could cause these exhaust valve stems to grow enough under sustained hot, heavy load to stick in
the corresponding exhaust valve guides:

You must be registered for see images attach

(credit: Unknown. Vortec head gasket failure photo between center cylinders)

After looking at this Vortec cylinder head photo, please re-read reply #9 to this thread. (#4 cylinder missing, but only under heavy load)

And keep in mind that SableSlayer was able to stop the madness by simply fixing the intake manifold gasket. In English,
he cleared the fault before permanent damage requiring $$$$ parts replacement was done. (!)

And also reread reply #14, and try to visualize how it might cure the issue of a cylinder misfire due to a sticky exhaust
valve...especially if the problem disappears once the heavy pulling is over. (TSB PIP3081)

Last but not least, after a fair amount of rabbit holing I came across an 18 year old thread over in the gm-trucks
forum where the problem was observed, the TSB was read, the cylinder heads were removed, and they found
physical proof the exhaust valve/guide clearance was the root cause of his issue: (Cylinder #4 misfire when towing up a grade)
{And to the author's credit he closed the loop by sharing the results...}

PS: Just to show that I'm not part of the anti-Bowtie brigade, I've attached a photo
of a BBC cylinder head showing the symmetrical exhaust port layout that helps prevent
the same kind of hot spot from occurring in 454 engine bays. (Hint: Look up a Mark I 348/409
cylinder head -- were the exhaust valves siamese in the center or symmetrical like the
Mark IV?)

Food for thought. Hoping you are able to address this before the mystery irritating
intermittent issue degrades to constant 7-cylinder sadness. :0)
I sincerely can’t thank everyone one the forum enough, you guys are awesome and if I do or don’t figure out what’s wrong I appreciate you guys helping me out along the way.
 

Road Trip

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I sincerely can’t thank everyone one the forum enough, you guys are awesome and if I do or don’t figure out what’s wrong I appreciate you guys helping me out along the way.

No matter if you solve the puzzle or not, if you could share whatever you discover this
will be a huge help to all who are troubleshooting similar 'tough nut to crack' scenarios,
now and in the future.

Best of luck! Cheers --
 

socal k1500

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No matter if you solve the puzzle or not, if you could share whatever you discover this
will be a huge help to all who are troubleshooting similar 'tough nut to crack' scenarios,
now and in the future.

Best of luck! Cheers --
You must be registered for see images attach

Took the hood off and started tearing it down, going to label all the connectors and tagging and bagging bolts as I go. I’ll keep you guys updated
 

Road Trip

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Took the hood off and started tearing it down, going to label all the connectors and tagging and bagging bolts as I go. I’ll keep you guys updated
:waytogo:

Before initially responding to this thread, I used your very specific failure footprint to
research how others successfully troubleshot & figured out how to fix the same issue
in the fewest number of moves.

This may not surprise you, but the vast majority of those threads across the internet
would eventually peter out with no documented fix. And some of the threads went
on for long periods of time, with increasing frustration voiced over the intermittent
misfire enigma.

Normally the thread would just stop. Sometimes the solution chosen was to trade the
vehicle in on something else. But when I finally found the 18 year old thread where the
owner could break the truck at will, (indirectly) referenced the July '04 TSB that you had
found, and then reported what was found at the machine shop, it all snapped into focus.

Saying it another way, by you documenting/sharing what you discover, this will not only
provide valuable insight to the GMT400 community, but also all the SBC enthusiasts who
still like to make their engines work hard/play hard without misfiring when you need it
most. (ie: Been waiting all year to tow your travel trailer on your vacation.)

Know that at least one motorhead out in the Finger Lakes region of NY will be watching closely.
Few things are better than when abstract troubleshooting theory is proven via a real-world,
well-documented fix. And if you hit a snag along the way then share that as well. No doubt
someone in this forum will be able to draw upon their own experience & chime in with a
solution that worked for them.

Bottom line? Good on you, sir. Ed Cole, Zora, Grumpy, Smokey, and countless other
modern day SBC enthusiasts who share our enthusiasm for these powerplants will approve. :0)

Cheers --
 

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socal k1500

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Made some good progress today got a lot of stuff tagged and got the engine at TDC to remove the dizzy. Then got the dizzy out. Tons of oil and gunk back there. I have a feeling cleaning is going to take up most of the time with this

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socal k1500

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Getting close, just need to try and push the harness further back and up, the connectors going down to the bottom to the ground and crankshaft were a PITA. Should be able to start taking out the manifold bolts soon.

Got lucky the connector next to the thermostat came out without breaking

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Orpedcrow

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Heck yea dude! Good on ya for tackling this job.

Click me Here’s a link to my build thread starting at the intake portion of my engine installation. (It goes on for a few pages) Maybe you’ll find some pictures or notes that’ll be helpful. @Road Trip makes a few appearances with great information :waytogo:
 

socal k1500

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Heck yea dude! Good on ya for tackling this job.

Click me Here’s a link to my build thread starting at the intake portion of my engine installation. (It goes on for a few pages) Maybe you’ll find some pictures or notes that’ll be helpful. @Road Trip makes a few appearances with great information :waytogo:
This is a silly question but there is no reason I can’t take both valve covers off right? I’m pretty sure both sides are leaking oil. Also I believe my valve covers are leaking oil at the bolts on top. Do the bolts need a gasket of some sort or a new washer?
 
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