Starter sticking, what could be the cause?

[HotWheelsBurban]

Flash not working?

Yeah this phone doesn't have as good a low light camera as my old one did. I'll try to get a better one tomorrow....

 

[Schurkey]

What it sounds like is the starter is spinning, but the solenoid is not activating and kicking the Bendix drive out into the flexplate teeth. It'll do this two or three times, then if we wait a minute or two, and try it again, starter acts perfectly normal and the truck cranks a second and then fires off. Like no problem at all.
Any hints on what it could be (besides checking connections)? Or is it time to replace the starter?

Change the starter solenoid, its weak. It bolts right in with simple tools.

Nope.

My original starter did that a few times, and I was advised by someone that the pinion may need lubrication

Closer.

When a starter motor spins, (often sounds like a small siren) but the engine doesn't crank, the problem is a slipping one-way clutch in the starter drive. This has nothing to do with the solenoid--if the solenoid were faulty, the starter motor wouldn't turn. It cannot be that the starter drive isn't being crammed into engagement with the flywheel--because if the solenoid plunger doesn't get pulled into the solenoid, the electrical switch at the front of the solenoid won't make contact, and the electric motor doesn't get power.

The starter drive is linked to the solenoid plunger via the shift-fork (which does wear, but generally not enough to prevent engagement.)

Cheap starter drives use four rollers. Better starter drives have five rollers, and therefore more torque capacity.

Years ago, I went to NAPA and ordered parts to rebuild about a half-dozen car/light truck (10MT) starter motors. Brushes, shift forks, front and rear bushings, even the leather washers. And I've still got at least four sets left, because shortly after buying all that crap, I discovered the GM permanent-magnet, gear reduction (PMGR) starters.

 

[RanchWelder]

Broken throw out spring can cause it to fail, in the Bendix...
Fixed way too many in old Ford tractor starters...
When the Bendix main spring goes, the ring gear loses teeth.
The Ford ring gears get eaten up, half the teeth width gone and missing teeth are common.

PMGR is the solution to all square body starter issues, IMHO.
The big fat starter with the missing block bracket is a waste of money.
Heat soak.

Those aftermarket starter's... not so much... housings crack too easily.
Bendix is often low quality, even on a $200 starter. If you look at the pictures carefully, a lot of aftermarket starters use the exact same cheap ass Chi co casting.They break easily, under load or in cold weather.

When you require a high HP / high compression starter, your spending $400 on a starter or going to a dowl mounted external starter, off the Crank Snout, with a battery pack and a couple of hand holds welded to your strter/mount. Like a hotrod or dragster starter.

Delphi and ACDelco make the 5 roller style, if I'm not mistaken...
The gold back case with brazed/welded tubes for the case bolts, seems to be the one you want... if memory serves me correctly.

Verify the PMGR end case cover, to be certain you are getting the Delphi or ACDelco version and not a knock off. The pictures hiding the motor end cover are not to be trusted. Bolts going through the end cover vary.
Look at the pictures before you buy and do some research.

Not all small starters are equal. Sub standard nose cone castings exist and the method the bolts connect the starter main body to the end cap makes a difference in quality. The Bendix is either a $79 replacement or a $15 replacement on a $65-$150 starter.

Choose the right starter the first time, or buy one every year due to manufacturer's mean time before failure = warantee + one month.

I would buy a starter you rebuilt Schurkey!

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Broken throw out spring can cause it to fail, in the Bendix...
Fixed way too many in old Ford tractor starters...
When the Bendix main spring goes, the ring gear loses teeth.
The Ford ring gears get eaten up, half the teeth width gone and missing teeth are common.

PMGR is the solution to all square body starter issues, IMHO.
The big fat starter with the missing block bracket is a waste of money.
Heat soak.

Those aftermarket starter's... not so much... housings crack too easily.
Bendix is often low quality, even on a $200 starter. If you look at the pictures carefully, a lot of aftermarket starters use the exact same cheap ass Chi co casting.They break easily, under load or in cold weather.

When you require a high HP / high compression starter, your spending $400 on a starter or going to a dowl mounted external starter, off the Crank Snout, with a battery pack and a couple of hand holds welded to your strter/mount. Like a hotrod or dragster starter.

Delphi and ACDelco make the 5 roller style, if I'm not mistaken...
The gold back case with brazed/welded tubes for the case bolts, seems to be the one you want... if memory serves me correctly.

Verify the PMGR end case cover, to be certain you are getting the Delphi or ACDelco version and not a knock off. The pictures hiding the motor end cover are not to be trusted. Bolts going through the end cover vary.
Look at the pictures before you buy and do some research.

Not all small starters are equal. Sub standard nose cone castings exist and the method the bolts connect the starter main body to the end cap makes a difference in quality. The Bendix is either a $79 replacement or a $15 replacement on a $65-$150 starter.

Choose the right starter the first time, or buy one every year due to manufacturer's mean time before failure = warantee + one month.

I would buy a starter you rebuilt Schurkey!

If he wasn't so far away, I'd send him the one I took off, to rebuild....

 

[RanchWelder]

See the Remy mini starter end cap?
Bolts outside the starter magnet housing...
Casting has strengthening ribs, quality machine work, no rough casting mold edges.
(1999 5.7L Remy starter $80.00 NEW)

You must be registered for see images attach

vs

ACDelco Gold Mini starter 3071022 $98.00 new

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

Rough casting, no reinforcement, less quality, internal case bolts, through the end cap. Completely different animal, IMHO.

These pics are from a 1999 K2500 at R/A
This is the Bosch SR8552X from a 1994/1999 $108 (Rebuilt)

You must be registered for see images attach

Bosch SR8552N $164 New, they sure are proud of them gold bits and fancy stickers...

You must be registered for see images attach

The Remy is the one to own...
Check out the castings and the end caps... Much to learn here.

I would ditch the boat anchor starter and get the remy, but what do I know...

Keep in mind, to use this starter instead of the fat boy, you need to have the diagonal starter bolt boss on your block, or else you are stuck with the fat boy starter. The fat starter is paralel bolts, inline with each other. The mini starter has diagonal bolts. Mini starters rarely use shims, but should be verified with a feeler gauge.

The fat starter without the engine block brace and shims, is why the Bendix gets ruined and the fat starter gets easily heat soaked from proximity to the exhaust.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

See the Remy end cap?

No, it's already installed. I'm going to get the original starter rebuilt, and keep it for the next time I have to replace it.
When it worked, 99% of the time, it sounded and performed very well. But the problem has been occurring more frequently, and we don't need to get stranded when it decides to finish dying in downtown Houston at night...or when I have half an hour to get to work.....

 

[GoToGuy]

Yep so three years later it's still working great.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[RanchWelder]

Cool!

Notice how the model number for your ACDelco Gold is completely different than the newer one listed on R/A?
The good points I made on your's are all there, just like the Remy...
Your's even has an additional casting certification on the solenoid housing, which none of the others have.

This is why my first post suggested the Gold was Good, then my second post seemed to retract that info... is actually correct and wrong at the same time...

Same company, same brand name and 2 completely different mini starters. Different housings, different castings, etc.

I rest my case. Mini starters are NOT all equal, even between the same manufacturer.

 

[Schurkey]

See the Remy mini starter end cap?
Bolts outside the starter magnet housing...
Casting has strengthening ribs, quality machine work, no rough casting mold edges.
(1999 5.7L Remy starter $80.00 NEW)

You must be registered for see images attach

GM PG260-style starter. See .pdf attachment below.

vs

ACDelco Gold Mini starter 3071022 $98.00 new

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

Rough casting, no reinforcement, less quality, internal case bolts, through the end cap. Completely different animal, IMHO.

Yes, it's entirely different. Appears to be a newer/cheaper version of the old 10MT-style starter, but now for reasons I don't understand, GM calls that design the SD300.

These pics are from a 1999 K2500 at R/A
This is the Bosch SR8552X from a 1994/1999 $108 (Rebuilt)

You must be registered for see images attach

Bosch SR8552N $164 New, they sure are proud of them gold bits and fancy stickers...

You must be registered for see images attach

Again, an aftermarket replacement for the PG260

Keep in mind, to use this starter instead of the fat boy, you need to have the diagonal starter bolt boss on your block, or else you are stuck with the fat boy starter. The fat starter is paralel bolts, inline with each other. The mini starter has diagonal bolts. Mini starters rarely use shims, but should be verified with a feeler gauge.

Not exactly.

With GM original starters on Chevy engines, the "straight across" bolt holes are for fitment when a 153-tooth flexplate/flywheel is used, the "diagonal" bolt holes are for use with a 168-tooth flywheel.

As said, there's many different designs of Genuine GM starter motors--at least five that I know of and perhaps more. Most if not all of those designs are available with either the straight-across or diagonal bolt holes on the nosecone, depending on which flywheel/flexplate is specified.

The fat starter without the engine block brace and shims, is why the Bendix gets ruined and the fat starter gets easily heat soaked from proximity to the exhaust.

Yup, the bigass non-gear-reduction starter needs the brace at the front. GM used braces on Buick, Cadillac, (except ElDorado) Chevy, (except the old bellhousing-mounted units), Pontiac, and Olds (Except Toronado). And in general, the first time the starter got replaced, the brace ended-up in a garbage can.

Heat-soak is a separate issue, and in most cases has more to do with high resistance in the purple wire conneted to the "S" terminal of the solenoid, than the starter itself...although sometimes it really is the starter.

Same company, same brand name and 2 completely different mini starters.

I rest my case. Mini starters are NOT all equal, even between the same manufacturer.

Yup. GM has multiple designs of starter motors, and multiple variations within most of the designs.

There's so many changes it's hard to keep track without some sort of cheat-sheet.

The nice thing is, that in MOST (NOT all) cases the starter motors are interchangeable as an assembly if you can source a nose-cone to fit the application. Unfortunately, this leaves some engine families with limited selection of modern starters because the engine family was out-of-production before GM started using the PMGR starter motors. For example, Chevy is well-covered and therefore Buick V8 is covered since Buick uses the same nose-cone as a Chevy with the 153-tooth flywheel. But most V8 Caddys, Pontiac, and most Olds which mount the starter on the opposite side of the block are S-O-L since those V8s were done by the time the PMGR starters were in production. ElDorado, Toronado, and certain old Chevies mount the starter to the bellhousing, and I don't know of a PMGR starter with a bellhousing-mount nosecone, so they're S-O-L too.

Of course, there's aftermarket starter designs suitable for the oddball engines, or you put brushes, bushings, a shift-fork, leather washer, and a 5-roller starter drive into the original-style 10MT/SD300 starter, then polish the armature, and the contacts inside the solenoid.

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[GoToGuy]

Ah the memories, laying in driveway stabbing a new starter in the 409 bell housing. Two ear starter nose. A 55 GMC stepside. If I had it now......