99 Yukon 5.7 intermittent starting issue after using block heater

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Thebluelion

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Hi there. My 99 Yukon 5.7 has been dead nuts reliable. It has a few options one being a block heater. Recently we had a deep freeze, and I knew I'd have to drive wife to a medical appointment on a snowy day. Block heater had never been used, so I ran a cord and plugged it in. Next day I go to unplug it, and notice the gfci had tripped. We load up, I notice the temp does not appear to be anything but dead cold, and when I start it, it spins over for a good 5 secs longer than normal and stumbles to life. Never in my years of ownership has it done anything but fire up like a healthy sbc.

Driving to appt, as my wife is going on about something I'm focused on the slight stumble I can't tell if I'm feeling or not. Maybe a slight hesitation leaving a red light. Barely noticeable. After sitting in the parking lot of appt for about 45 minutes, we go to leave and as I turn the key she just keeps spinning over, and sounds like it's trying to fire 180 degrees out. I've got my wife and three year old, it's snowing, and I try it a few more times out of desperation even though it sounds like it's about to grenade the starter. Again, it sounded like it was just turning over and would periodically try to fire waaaay out of time and working against the starter, then right back to turning over. I call a tow company, and they are booked solid due to snow, 3 hr wait. After sitting for a solid hour and just thinking, I decide to try it again. Fires up with just a slight drag, but idles fine. I decide to head directly home. Has no issues, runs as normal.

I'm now nervous to take her out again, in case I get stranded. I have ran two separate OBD scanners for codes, nothing found. Idles at 650. Starts right up in the driveway. I checked when cold, let it idle until up to temp, shut off, start up...still no issues. Has never thrown a CEL.

Does this sound like a failing Crank Position Sensor? Think I electrically damaged something plugging in a shorted block heater? Have you heard of a shorted factory block heater? I have not tested fuel pressure, and I know making assumptions isn't best course, but it really felt like the only issue was when it was trying to fire was completely incorrect, as if timing was out bad. It seems like that would point at the crank position sensor before ignition control module, cam position, or distributor/coil? It has new wires, plugs, and has been lovingly maintained.

I don't want to fire the parts cannon, but with no codes, and can't get it to repeat, not sure what to do. I need my confidence back. I have taken this girl off grid deep into PNW wilderness area for weeks at a time now im worried about leaving neighborhood. Thanks.
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GoToGuy

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Ok. Lovely maintained yet an obvious maintenance problem happened and your ignoring it? You said the GFI tripped! It's telling you something is wrong. Did you use an extension cord? What gauge, what length? Do you know about heaters and extension cords? Have checked the coolant level. Have checked any of the wiring for the block heater?
How cold did it get? It's undeniable that extended hours below freezing is gonna make any battery try to live up to it's CCA guarantee. That's what can kill a battery that was great, but now can't live in the cold anymore.
You do know 1) block heater tripped GFI. Why? Get multimeter out check it. Ohms, continuity? Visual check wiring to block. 2) A electric problem happened - you suspect a electric problem with truck. Recheck wriring , did any of the heater wiring affect any truck wiring? No codes, can your scanner see other sensor readings ? All normal?
Block heater goes Tango Uniform, coincidentally have hard starting?
How is battery condition, age? Cable corrosion? Clean grounds?
That's where I'd start. Can I have the Grand National when your done with it...
 

Thebluelion

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Ok. Lovely maintained yet an obvious maintenance problem happened and your ignoring it? You said the GFI tripped! It's telling you something is wrong. Did you use an extension cord? What gauge, what length? Do you know about heaters and extension cords? Have checked the coolant level. Have checked any of the wiring for the block heater?
How cold did it get? It's undeniable that extended hours below freezing is gonna make any battery try to live up to it's CCA guarantee. That's what can kill a battery that was great, but now can't live in the cold anymore.
You do know 1) block heater tripped GFI. Why? Get multimeter out check it. Ohms, continuity? Visual check wiring to block. 2) A electric problem happened - you suspect a electric problem with truck. Recheck wriring , did any of the heater wiring affect any truck wiring? No codes, can your scanner see other sensor readings ? All normal?
Block heater goes Tango Uniform, coincidentally have hard starting?
How is battery condition, age? Cable corrosion? Clean grounds?
That's where I'd start. Can I have the Grand National when your done with it...
Lol...this is why I have avoided forums. Absolutely zero help, no input....just a word salad of questions.

Im not ignoring a maintenance problem you dingus. I'm actively tracking it down, but it's intermittent. Did you even read my post before getting all hyper?

You obviously aren't familiar with block heaters. There are only two places it could have grounded out. The pigtail or the element. The pigtail is fine. I'm not going to drain my block of antifreeze in the winter to verify that "yep...it's shorted" I'll just avoid using it. Battery is fine. Starter is fine. Again, it never had an issue with spinning the engine over. Charge and amps are spec. No DTCs. No CEL. All data streams from sensors fine. Idle RPMs are around 650 and steady with no drop outs. My issue is potential sensor damage that would effect engine timing that could have been brought on by dumping 110 into the block. My assumption is crank position sensor. I do not have experience with crank position sensor failure modes. Do they slowly demagnetize since it's a Hall Effect? Or so they normally just fail resulting in a No Start with no stumble or misfire?

Respectfully, if anyone has any experience with troubleshooting intermittent timing issues with an engine firing about 180 out due to possible crank position sensor failure, please help a guy out.
 

RacerM95

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MAy sound like a dumb question (coming from a place where block heaters are a fact of life) where and what kind of heater ? V-8 GM it should be middle freeze plug hole, I have come across block heaters in the wrong place causing the temp sender to send wrong info to ecm. check the chord for continuity. worse comes to worse change out heater and chord. Chances are chord is frayed someplace
 

Komet

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Pulled crank position sensor. Less magnetic pull than the AC Delco replacement when compared side by side. Issue resolved. Thanks.
That's good news, did you find any evidence of the block heater malfunctioning?

A friend of mine had his house catch on fire from an electrical cord plugged into a block heater. Caught it sparking on camera and I've seen the footage so it's not just a guess. I know they're not optional in some climates but it sure seems like the juice isn't worth the squeeze to me.
 

GoToGuy

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I can see why you avoid forums. Good luck!
 

Road Trip

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Hi there. My 99 Yukon 5.7 has been dead nuts reliable. It has a few options one being a block heater. Recently we had a deep freeze, and I knew I'd have to drive wife to a medical appointment on a snowy day. Block heater had never been used, so I ran a cord and plugged it in. Next day I go to unplug it, and notice the gfci had tripped. We load up, I notice the temp does not appear to be anything but dead cold, and when I start it, it spins over for a good 5 secs longer than normal and stumbles to life. Never in my years of ownership has it done anything but fire up like a healthy sbc.

Driving to appt, as my wife is going on about something I'm focused on the slight stumble I can't tell if I'm feeling or not. Maybe a slight hesitation leaving a red light. Barely noticeable. After sitting in the parking lot of appt for about 45 minutes, we go to leave and as I turn the key she just keeps spinning over, and sounds like it's trying to fire 180 degrees out. I've got my wife and three year old, it's snowing, and I try it a few more times out of desperation even though it sounds like it's about to grenade the starter. Again, it sounded like it was just turning over and would periodically try to fire waaaay out of time and working against the starter, then right back to turning over. I call a tow company, and they are booked solid due to snow, 3 hr wait. After sitting for a solid hour and just thinking, I decide to try it again. Fires up with just a slight drag, but idles fine. I decide to head directly home. Has no issues, runs as normal.

I'm now nervous to take her out again, in case I get stranded. I have ran two separate OBD scanners for codes, nothing found. Idles at 650. Starts right up in the driveway. I checked when cold, let it idle until up to temp, shut off, start up...still no issues. Has never thrown a CEL.

Does this sound like a failing Crank Position Sensor? Think I electrically damaged something plugging in a shorted block heater? Have you heard of a shorted factory block heater? I have not tested fuel pressure, and I know making assumptions isn't best course, but it really felt like the only issue was when it was trying to fire was completely incorrect, as if timing was out bad. It seems like that would point at the crank position sensor before ignition control module, cam position, or distributor/coil? It has new wires, plugs, and has been lovingly maintained.

I don't want to fire the parts cannon, but with no codes, and can't get it to repeat, not sure what to do. I need my confidence back. I have taken this girl off grid deep into PNW wilderness area for weeks at a time now im worried about leaving neighborhood. Thanks.
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Greetings,

The symptoms you describe are very detailed & specific. They sounded very much like the
symptoms described in the following GM TSB about a failing CKP sensor causing an
additional 50 degrees of spark advance, but only during cranking:

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Note that your '99 falls into the model years described in this TSB.

It would be interesting if the P0338 DTC code is still stored in the VCM history. Also, since this
code does NOT illuminate the SES/Check Engine light, this would help to explain why you were
experiencing these symptoms w/no change in the status of the Check Engine light?

****

The TSB doesn't go into *why* the Crankshaft Position Sensors were failing, so for me to
guess that the failing (60Hz) block heater somehow turned itself into an Extra-Strength Degausser,
or somehow created a large inductive transient during failure and damaged your Hall sensor...would
be pure conjecture on my part.

Even so, the erratic cranking you described is a match for the symptoms listed in this TSB.
Pretty strange stuff. But at least it's genuine GM documented strange...and not the stuff that we
forum dudes like to brew up around our virtual campfire. :0)

If you happen to discover *any* stored codes in your VCM that also don't illuminate
your Check Engine light, please post them here for future reference.

After your repair and reading this TSB, hope this helps you regain a little trust in
your faithful traveling companion.

Cheers -
 
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Schurkey

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You do know 1) block heater tripped GFI. Why? Get multimeter out check it. Ohms, continuity? Visual check wiring to block.
Flat-blade to flat-blade should be "about" 35 ohms.
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Either flat blade (doesn't matter which one) to the round "ground" pin = no continuity. Continuity indicates problems which could be as simple as snow or water making a conductive path when the extension cord gets dropped on the ground.
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I would start out by testing at the extension cord, where it plugs into the receptacle in the garage. The first test may read a bit higher in the ohms value due to the length of cable in the extension cord.

If you have no continuity from flat blade to ground pin at the extension cord, I don't know why your GFIC tripped unless it was stray moisture somewhere between "hot" and "ground". If you do have continuity, test again at the block heater cord to eliminate a fault in the extension cord.



I'm not aware of any connection between a faulty block heater and failure of various sensors. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, just that I don't see a cause-effect relationship from here.

I'm thinking that this CPS failure and block-heater use was coincidence; or perhaps both were due to the "deep freeze" mentioned.
 
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