1993 Chevrolet C3500 Crew Cab Restoration/Cummins Build

[JScott23]

I mean 1st to 1st gear comparison.

that i have no idea on. all of my ratio information was obtained from google searches and ratio rpm calculators.

I know that part but I always say to myself, am I going to have to put more money into it later or will I be good. That's what you should look at. The 4l80 as good as it is, out of the box you have to upgrade it to handle the power of the Cummins. The Allison you don't. When you crank up the power on the Cummins you will have to rebuild the 4l80 again, where with the Allison you will have to build for the first time.

That's how I look at it. If you aren't modding and won't be heavy on the foot and won't tow get the 80. But if you are going to smash that pedal and smash it when you are towing, don't lie to yourself there's going to be that A-hole who makes you want to keep him out of your lane, than get the transmission built for a diesel out of the box.

Main thing is this...pay for it now or pay for it later....

Ps.
I suck at grammar....hooked on phonics didn't do **** for me..lol

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Haha no worries on the grammar.

As far as your logic, like i said before you're right.

First to cover everything as far as usage, my trucks live an easy life. Heaviest i tow is another pickup truck or a skidsteer. and when i do, i don't really go overboard and never floor it lol.

As far as mods, my maximum intentions are slightly bigger injectors and a he351. No real intentions to lay down more than 500 HP. A built 4L80E can handle that no problem.. the allison is far superior being a heavy duty full planetary automatic, but the 4L80E is still sufficient enough. I actually know a guy running a mildly built 4L80E behind a heavy modded 12 valve with no issues. that said, its still no Allison im not saying that.

Its just the overdrive. that 6th gear ratio for highway cruising is what im after. after all while i do tow, and i want the truck to be set up for towing, i only tow heavier than 8k pounds maybe 2 times a year? and not long distance. it will be empty more times than not, so i really have no concerns about the 80 living, its just the 2nd overdrive like i said

 

[Jorge6.5]

Nv4500 and call it a day. The programming is super simple too.

This

 

[rolla711]

that i have no idea on. all of my ratio information was obtained from google searches and ratio rpm calculators.



Haha no worries on the grammar.

As far as your logic, like i said before you're right.

First to cover everything as far as usage, my trucks live an easy life. Heaviest i tow is another pickup truck or a skidsteer. and when i do, i don't really go overboard and never floor it lol.

As far as mods, my maximum intentions are slightly bigger injectors and a he351. No real intentions to lay down more than 500 HP. A built 4L80E can handle that no problem.. the allison is far superior being a heavy duty full planetary automatic, but the 4L80E is still sufficient enough. I actually know a guy running a mildly built 4L80E behind a heavy modded 12 valve with no issues. that said, its still no Allison im not saying that.

Its just the overdrive. that 6th gear ratio for highway cruising is what im after. after all while i do tow, and i want the truck to be set up for towing, i only tow heavier than 8k pounds maybe 2 times a year? and not long distance. it will be empty more times than not, so i really have no concerns about the 80 living, its just the 2nd overdrive like i said

Ok that makes sense than. What's the torque that a 80 can hold? I thought they were only good for 500?

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[JScott23]

Ok that makes sense than. What's the torque that a 80 can hold? I thought they were only good for 500?

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So yeah, a built 4L80E kinda is underrated. Using Jakes Stage 2 kit, you should be set for around 700HP. Using their stage 3-5 kits you're good for about 1000-1500HP (That's warranted if they build the trans) Not sure the torque numbers, but pretty insane. Hell if I had intentions of making anything north of 500HP i'd be going a different trans route anyways, but again, Injectors and an HE351 are my farthest of intentions. I don't need that much power, and as soon as you start pouring that much fuel in them, they don't really want to start well in the cold.

Now I've debated this for about a week, talked to lots of people. Even the guys at Destroked (who'd make the money off me buying more in parts) said that they wouldn't even bother, cool yes? worth the cost? no. Just their two cents. I've talked to about 25-30 Cummins swap guys , many of whom have done multiple swaps. Most of the guys who've used an automatic say the same thing, 47RH or 4L80E, that the Allison just isn't worth the cost. Nobody has bashed the 80E saying it wasn't up to the challenge. Most who plan to tow heavy have gone the manual route, which I'd prefer to do heavy towing with anyways. I just really don't want a manual trans in this particular build. As nice as the Allison is, the NV4500 or NV5600 is by far the best route to go. Very durable transmission and the cheapest option by far.

My only reasoning for potentially using the Allison was to gain a better overdrive ratio, but for my application, the cost just isn't worth it. I'd love to see someone do it, I just can't realistically afford to.

 

[rolla711]

That makes sense, with that being said yea I would go ahead stick with the 80. If you are going to keep it a like daily than yea. Make it whatever makes you comfortable. So transmission talk has been settled than?

I only ask because you give me inspiration to really do this swap....if it wasn't so expensive lol

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[JScott23]

That makes sense, with that being said yea I would go ahead stick with the 80. If you are going to keep it a like daily than yea. Make it whatever makes you comfortable. So transmission talk has been settled than?

I only ask because you give me inspiration to really do this swap....if it wasn't so expensive lol

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That's the only thing with this swap, by the time you're all said and done (even using the NV4500 which is cheapest), you might as well go buy a 2nd gen dodge. You can pick up decent 12 valves for 6-8k , but I think there is a reason most of us don't drive dodges, despite their solid front axles. Duramax trucks are nice, but you're probably going to spend $10-12k at least on one, with high miles. Such an expensive truck to own.

I'm only doing it because of the sentimental value of this truck. I'd say if you did ever try it, definitely get all the parts ahead of time, that way you don't have to make it such a process of a build. You could just swap parts and go within 30 days. Also, make sure its a truck you're going to be satisfied with. I've seen so many guys do Cummins swaps, only to end up selling shortly after because they want a crew cab, or a short bed, etc, etc. Make sure the truck you're working with is worth the investment to you before you commit to it.


If you do try it, or for anyone reading, I got my engine from Tex-Star Automotive Services out of McKinney Texas. Guy has become a friend of mine, and sells good used 12V and 24V engines. He provides a video the cold start, oil pressure, blowby, and exhaust smoke and is very professional and detailed about it. There is a guy who sells used engines on ebay who was on powerblock TV, but I've heard shaky reviews about him. I could never find an engine local that I could hear run for a reasonable price. He's a good guy who runs a legit business. I would buy from him again. Given his location, he can practically acquire any powertrain part as well and ships cheap. He was the one who was going to source me a used Allison trans if I were to go that route.

 

[rolla711]

That's the only thing with this swap, by the time you're all said and done (even using the NV4500 which is cheapest), you might as well go buy a 2nd gen dodge. You can pick up decent 12 valves for 6-8k , but I think there is a reason most of us don't drive dodges, despite their solid front axles. Duramax trucks are nice, but you're probably going to spend $10-12k at least on one, with high miles. Such an expensive truck to own.

I'm only doing it because of the sentimental value of this truck. I'd say if you did ever try it, definitely get all the parts ahead of time, that way you don't have to make it such a process of a build. You could just swap parts and go within 30 days. Also, make sure its a truck you're going to be satisfied with. I've seen so many guys do Cummins swaps, only to end up selling shortly after because they want a crew cab, or a short bed, etc, etc. Make sure the truck you're working with is worth the investment to you before you commit to it.


If you do try it, or for anyone reading, I got my engine from Tex-Star Automotive Services out of McKinney Texas. Guy has become a friend of mine, and sells good used 12V and 24V engines. He provides a video the cold start, oil pressure, blowby, and exhaust smoke and is very professional and detailed about it. There is a guy who sells used engines on ebay who was on powerblock TV, but I've heard shaky reviews about him. I could never find an engine local that I could hear run for a reasonable price. He's a good guy who runs a legit business. I would buy from him again. Given his location, he can practically acquire any powertrain part as well and ships cheap. He was the one who was going to source me a used Allison trans if I were to go that route.

That's what my friends keep telling me, "just buy a dodge truck." I'm with you on seeing almost everyone selling and not keeping there Frankenstein. I was planning on doing it on my burb and bagging it. I like you want to keep 4x2. The burb has paid me back from owning it for less than a year in being able up drive to New York, Missouri(2 times), and Dallas(3 times), with myself only putting less than a 100 dollars in parts.

If I were to buy a dodge it would just be a mudding truck. I love the powerstrokes but that engine is pricy. I'm not a duramax fan at all. Cummins sound nice.

I'm probably just going to settle on a ls 5.3 or 4.8 and just become boost happy with it. I don't have the means to cut and fabricate like most people do, which is My major drawback

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[JScott23]

That's what my friends keep telling me, "just buy a dodge truck." I'm with you on seeing almost everyone selling and not keeping there Frankenstein. I was planning on doing it on my burb and bagging it. I like you want to keep 4x2. The burb has paid me back from owning it for less than a year in being able up drive to New York, Missouri(2 times), and Dallas(3 times), with myself only putting less than a 100 dollars in parts.

If I were to buy a dodge it would just be a mudding truck. I love the powerstrokes but that engine is pricy. I'm not a duramax fan at all. Cummins sound nice.

I'm probably just going to settle on a ls 5.3 or 4.8 and just become boost happy with it. I don't have the means to cut and fabricate like most people do, which is My major drawback

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As far as fab work, I'm no fabricator. I've done my swap with simple cutting, grinding, basic tack welding, and what not. I am not comfortable enough fab wise to do persay an SAS from using weld on components... And I would actually prefer to have 4x4, but I would rather to keep this truck on its original frame (partly due to the sentimental aspect), but especially with the cummins it makes it easier clearance wise and 2WD is much simpler to work on and maintenance for a truck that will never go off road anyways. My daily can have 4wd hence why I bought the CCSB 4x4 frame, for a daily on the red crew cab

As far as people selling their Frankenstein's, that's just a terrible waste of money, because you never get what you put in. To me you only decide to do something like this if the truck is a worthy candidate from the start and something you plan to keep long term.

 

[rolla711]

Got ya. Glad you are keeping to what you want done on this beast. Maybe one day I may do a diesel swap but as of right now the vehicles I have too much cutting and lifting would get in the way.

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[JScott23]

Got ya. Glad you are keeping to what you want done on this beast. Maybe one day I may do a diesel swap but as of right now the vehicles I have too much cutting and lifting would get in the way.

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Yeah i'm kinda being picky but there are just certain things i want to keep. The long bed, mechanical fan and automatic transmission are the three biggies. lol