Should I be getting better gas mileage? Improvements?

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cheetahranger

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A bit low - no?
I'm running 45psi at the front, 50psi at the rear. 265/65 17 on a C2500 Suburban.
Okay, I'll air up that should boost it marginally.
The wider tires could be contributing. You are basically moving a given mass of a given weight through a body of air that is resisting your motion. By lifting or using larger tires you are increasing your front cross sectional area. Airflow under a vehicle is terribly inefficient. The weight you have added is not helping either.

Your gears are more for highway but they may be hurting you with the larger tires because it keeps your engine out of a good spot in the torque curve.

Lastly did you update the memcal for the larger displacement engine and possibly different cam? These computers are not very adaptive to changing components.
Yea the tires aren't doing me ANY favors. I do offroad my truck often enough though that they are worth it to me, but it's still a daily so I'm trying to squeeze every last drop out given it's set up. Regarding the gearing, that's what I've been thinking. Once I switch to 4.10s it'll take a lot less oomph to get going, and with overdrive it won't be terribly bad on the highway, which is only about 20% of my driving anyways. I didn't even think about whether or not they ECM was updated for the swap. My grandfather had it done at some shop 10+ years ago, and I don't have that paperwork. I think I'm going to get an ALDL cable and monitor the ecm, see if it's having any issues I don't know about. A blackbear tune would probably be worth it?
 

Frank Enstein

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Skip the 4.10 gears and go for gears that will keep you @ 2300 to 2500 rpm at your cruising speed on the highway. The 4.10:1 gears would be O.K. if you didn't have overdrive.

The 3.42 in OD becomes 2.39 and 4.1 becomes a 2.87. Even 5.14:1 becomes 3.59. I often recommend 5.38:1 for tires like you have.

The truck is under-geared for the stock tires and the taller ones compounds the problem.
 

cheetahranger

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Skip the 4.10 gears and go for gears that will keep you @ 2300 to 2500 rpm at your cruising speed on the highway. The 4.10:1 gears would be O.K. if you didn't have overdrive.

The 3.42 in OD becomes 2.39 and 4.1 becomes a 2.87. Even 5.14:1 becomes 3.59. I often recommend 5.38:1 for tires like you have.

The truck is under-geared for the stock tires and the taller ones compounds the problem.
Damn you right
 

letitsnow

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Okay, I'll air up that should boost it marginally.
The guy that gave you that advice has a 3/4 ton, while you have a 1/2 ton. Be sure that your tires can handle that kind of pressure before adding it.

If you put too much air in the tires, the centers will wear out too fast, totally negating any mpg benefits that you might find.

Choose which advice you take wisely...
 

letitsnow

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A tbi 350 truck on 33's - 9 city/14 hwy is probably all that you will ever get, reliably. You can tune/modify to make it perform better while getting that mpg, but without getting radical and taking the fun out of driving - that is about what you will find.
 

Frank Enstein

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As far as air pressure goes, maximum pressure can give better fuel economy at the expense of ride quality, tire life, and traction.

The method I use is;
1) Find the gross axle weight rating for your truck. Divide by 2.
2) Get the max pressure from the tire sidewall.
3) Get the max load the tire can carry from the sidewall.
4) Take the maximum tire pressure and divide by the max load.
5) Multiply the number from step 4 to get your pressure (at least a good starting point anyway).

If you always run empty weigh the front and rear axles to get the actual weight you have rather than the listed GVWR.

Or contact the tire manufacturer of the tires for a tire pressure recommendation.
 

cheetahranger

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As far as air pressure goes, maximum pressure can give better fuel economy at the expense of ride quality, tire life, and traction.

The method I use is;
1) Find the gross axle weight rating for your truck. Divide by 2.
2) Get the max pressure from the tire sidewall.
3) Get the max load the tire can carry from the sidewall.
4) Take the maximum tire pressure and divide by the max load.
5) Multiply the number from step 4 to get your pressure (at least a good starting point anyway).

If you always run empty weigh the front and rear axles to get the actual weight you have rather than the listed GVWR.

Or contact the tire manufacturer of the tires for a tire pressure recommendation.
Thanks
A tbi 350 truck on 33's - 9 city/14 hwy is probably all that you will ever get, reliably. You can tune/modify to make it perform better while getting that mpg, but without getting radical and taking the fun out of driving - that is about what you will find.
Yep, I figure that. Trying my best to squeeze every drop I can given gas is about $5/gal here in Oregon
 

Tenhorse

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I disagree wholeheartedly with the guy who recommended 5.38s for your 33" tires. Gm designed these engines to get better mileage by turning slower. As long as you shift into overdrive and your torque converter clutch locks up, your gears are fine. Maybe a tad tall, but not ridiculously so.. since you're only running a couple inches taller than stock.
The roof rack and bumper and winch all add both weight and wind resistance.
I think the high idle is telling. Does your truck smell like raw gasoline at idle? Is it hard to start when hot? I think your computer isn't seeing your coolant temp sensor. I had a bent connector on my most recent tbi truck. It plugged in but didn't quite touch the pins on the coolant temp sensor. The computer thought the coolant was -40⁰ and was absolutely dumping gas in on the coolant temp enrichment circuit. That would also increaae your idle speed like a choke in older engines. As the engine hears up, the idle should drop to about 625rpm. The gauge and computer use different sensors, so your gauge may read fine. Another factor may be your thermostat.. I recently changed back to a 195⁰ thermostat. I thought a 180⁰ would help performance but the computer doesn't really like it that much. It only keeps the engine from going into lean cruise mode because the computer thinks it's it's not fully up to temp.
The torque converter clutch won't lock if the coolant temp is too low.. so if the coolant temp sensor isn't reading correctly, the tcc won't lock and you'll be using more fuel.
If I'm going for maximum mileage, I air the tires up to max pressure or even a few psi over. I've never heard of dividing the weight by the max load and dividing by the max pressure before. That assumes that the load capacity increases linearly with pressure. And an empty truck isnt that heavy on the rear so you'll be underinflating the tires... Isn't that how Ford Explorers were blowing all of those tires in the 90s?
The stock tbi timing table is extremely conservative. I added between 4⁰ and 22⁰ spark advance to my 92 c1500's tables. Wide open throttle was set for 16.34⁰. That's incredibly inefficient. These trucks typically like 34⁰ of total timing. Unless you can get a custom chip or tune the timing tables yourself, I'd set your base timing to 6⁰ instead of 0⁰ and see how it goes. If you hear pinging, back it off. Proper spark timing has a huge benefit for both power and economy. I tuned mine over the course of a couple weeks, datalogging the drive back and forth to work, then making small tweaks. If I ever saw activity on the knock sensor, id immediately pull 4⁰ from that cell.
My truck has headers and free-flowing exhaust. That's the only engine modification. It's a 92 c1500 rclb. 350tbi. 700r4. 3.42. 235/75r15s. I tuned the tbi computer with my laptop. I'm getting pretty good mileage with mine once I've got everything dialed in. Gm should have tuned them like this from the factory.
As far as gearing, you can go with 4.10s, but for only 33" tires, you don't need anything deeper. My 90 k2500 had a th400 and 245/75R16s. It got 8.4mpgs on my first tank. I eventually got it up to about 13.5mpg with no mods to the stock computer. My 93 k2500 had a best tank ever of 14.25mpg with its 4L80E trans. Both trucks have 4.10s. I eventually went with a holley sniper system on the 90. But it was shot in the foot from the start with the th400 trans. Highway rpms were ridiculous, with 2400rpms being 50mph. Passing on the interstate was sometimes a 4000rpm affair.. and that's sustained. I eventually installed a 4L80E and I'm much happier with the cruise rpms. Calculate your cruise rpms with 5.38s and see what your rpms will be at 75 or 80.
 

cheetahranger

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I disagree wholeheartedly with the guy who recommended 5.38s for your 33" tires. Gm designed these engines to get better mileage by turning slower. As long as you shift into overdrive and your torque converter clutch locks up, your gears are fine. Maybe a tad tall, but not ridiculously so.. since you're only running a couple inches taller than stock.
The roof rack and bumper and winch all add both weight and wind resistance.
I think the high idle is telling. Does your truck smell like raw gasoline at idle? Is it hard to start when hot? I think your computer isn't seeing your coolant temp sensor. I had a bent connector on my most recent tbi truck. It plugged in but didn't quite touch the pins on the coolant temp sensor. The computer thought the coolant was -40⁰ and was absolutely dumping gas in on the coolant temp enrichment circuit. That would also increaae your idle speed like a choke in older engines. As the engine hears up, the idle should drop to about 625rpm. The gauge and computer use different sensors, so your gauge may read fine. Another factor may be your thermostat.. I recently changed back to a 195⁰ thermostat. I thought a 180⁰ would help performance but the computer doesn't really like it that much. It only keeps the engine from going into lean cruise mode because the computer thinks it's it's not fully up to temp.
The torque converter clutch won't lock if the coolant temp is too low.. so if the coolant temp sensor isn't reading correctly, the tcc won't lock and you'll be using more fuel.
If I'm going for maximum mileage, I air the tires up to max pressure or even a few psi over. I've never heard of dividing the weight by the max load and dividing by the max pressure before. That assumes that the load capacity increases linearly with pressure. And an empty truck isnt that heavy on the rear so you'll be underinflating the tires... Isn't that how Ford Explorers were blowing all of those tires in the 90s?
The stock tbi timing table is extremely conservative. I added between 4⁰ and 22⁰ spark advance to my 92 c1500's tables. Wide open throttle was set for 16.34⁰. That's incredibly inefficient. These trucks typically like 34⁰ of total timing. Unless you can get a custom chip or tune the timing tables yourself, I'd set your base timing to 6⁰ instead of 0⁰ and see how it goes. If you hear pinging, back it off. Proper spark timing has a huge benefit for both power and economy. I tuned mine over the course of a couple weeks, datalogging the drive back and forth to work, then making small tweaks. If I ever saw activity on the knock sensor, id immediately pull 4⁰ from that cell.
My truck has headers and free-flowing exhaust. That's the only engine modification. It's a 92 c1500 rclb. 350tbi. 700r4. 3.42. 235/75r15s. I tuned the tbi computer with my laptop. I'm getting pretty good mileage with mine once I've got everything dialed in. Gm should have tuned them like this from the factory.
As far as gearing, you can go with 4.10s, but for only 33" tires, you don't need anything deeper. My 90 k2500 had a th400 and 245/75R16s. It got 8.4mpgs on my first tank. I eventually got it up to about 13.5mpg with no mods to the stock computer. My 93 k2500 had a best tank ever of 14.25mpg with its 4L80E trans. Both trucks have 4.10s. I eventually went with a holley sniper system on the 90. But it was shot in the foot from the start with the th400 trans. Highway rpms were ridiculous, with 2400rpms being 50mph. Passing on the interstate was sometimes a 4000rpm affair.. and that's sustained. I eventually installed a 4L80E and I'm much happier with the cruise rpms. Calculate your cruise rpms with 5.38s and see what your rpms will be at 75 or 80.
Wow, thanks for so much great info. Something I didn't mention is that once I replaced the thermostat, it wouldn't read past 150 on the gauge, so I replaced the engine temperature sensor. That still didn't change where it was on the gauge, so I replaced the gauge sensor on the intake. That didn't fix it so I bought a like $20 amazon IR thermometer and it reads up to temp, but it's not very accurate and fluctuates a lot. I'm gonna buy an ALDL cable and see what the ECM thinks its at, see if it is just my gauge or if I have some dud parts. I'm probably gonna stick to either 4.10 or 4.56, still deciding. Once get that ALDL cable I'll take a look at the timing as well, can you adjust the curve on these trucks without a tuner chip or just the base timing with the distributor?
 

L31MaxExpress

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I disagree wholeheartedly with the guy who recommended 5.38s for your 33" tires. Gm designed these engines to get better mileage by turning slower. As long as you shift into overdrive and your torque converter clutch locks up, your gears are fine. Maybe a tad tall, but not ridiculously so.. since you're only running a couple inches taller than stock.
The roof rack and bumper and winch all add both weight and wind resistance.
I think the high idle is telling. Does your truck smell like raw gasoline at idle? Is it hard to start when hot? I think your computer isn't seeing your coolant temp sensor. I had a bent connector on my most recent tbi truck. It plugged in but didn't quite touch the pins on the coolant temp sensor. The computer thought the coolant was -40⁰ and was absolutely dumping gas in on the coolant temp enrichment circuit. That would also increaae your idle speed like a choke in older engines. As the engine hears up, the idle should drop to about 625rpm. The gauge and computer use different sensors, so your gauge may read fine. Another factor may be your thermostat.. I recently changed back to a 195⁰ thermostat. I thought a 180⁰ would help performance but the computer doesn't really like it that much. It only keeps the engine from going into lean cruise mode because the computer thinks it's it's not fully up to temp.
The torque converter clutch won't lock if the coolant temp is too low.. so if the coolant temp sensor isn't reading correctly, the tcc won't lock and you'll be using more fuel.
If I'm going for maximum mileage, I air the tires up to max pressure or even a few psi over. I've never heard of dividing the weight by the max load and dividing by the max pressure before. That assumes that the load capacity increases linearly with pressure. And an empty truck isnt that heavy on the rear so you'll be underinflating the tires... Isn't that how Ford Explorers were blowing all of those tires in the 90s?
The stock tbi timing table is extremely conservative. I added between 4⁰ and 22⁰ spark advance to my 92 c1500's tables. Wide open throttle was set for 16.34⁰. That's incredibly inefficient. These trucks typically like 34⁰ of total timing. Unless you can get a custom chip or tune the timing tables yourself, I'd set your base timing to 6⁰ instead of 0⁰ and see how it goes. If you hear pinging, back it off. Proper spark timing has a huge benefit for both power and economy. I tuned mine over the course of a couple weeks, datalogging the drive back and forth to work, then making small tweaks. If I ever saw activity on the knock sensor, id immediately pull 4⁰ from that cell.
My truck has headers and free-flowing exhaust. That's the only engine modification. It's a 92 c1500 rclb. 350tbi. 700r4. 3.42. 235/75r15s. I tuned the tbi computer with my laptop. I'm getting pretty good mileage with mine once I've got everything dialed in. Gm should have tuned them like this from the factory.
As far as gearing, you can go with 4.10s, but for only 33" tires, you don't need anything deeper. My 90 k2500 had a th400 and 245/75R16s. It got 8.4mpgs on my first tank. I eventually got it up to about 13.5mpg with no mods to the stock computer. My 93 k2500 had a best tank ever of 14.25mpg with its 4L80E trans. Both trucks have 4.10s. I eventually went with a holley sniper system on the 90. But it was shot in the foot from the start with the th400 trans. Highway rpms were ridiculous, with 2400rpms being 50mph. Passing on the interstate was sometimes a 4000rpm affair.. and that's sustained. I eventually installed a 4L80E and I'm much happier with the cruise rpms. Calculate your cruise rpms with 5.38s and see what your rpms will be at 75 or 80.

With 3.08s and 28" tall tires, I never even used overdrive until I was rolling 75-80 mph and even the only on flat road. Mine liked 2,200-2,600 rpm. Under 2,000 rpm drank gas. Peak power is alao made between 26 and 30° BTDC on the swirl ports. Mine liked 29° best. Cruise timing was up to 50° though at light loads.
 
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