NV3500 to NV4500 swap w/ NP241

[shelbyt.67]

I'm sure this has been answered SOMEWHERE, but I cant find it.
Got a '92 with the NV3500/NP241 setup currently.
Is it a direct swap? If not whats needed to make it work?

 

[shelbyt.67]

OK. Been up all nite researchin bout this and decided Ima gonna rebuild the 3500. Its got the death whine a happnin.

I decided this based on the 3500 having a more DD friendly gear ratio and the fact that I don't do any thing with my truck that needs a bullet proof setup. Mostly stock motor and average towin/off-roadin. Also read several convincing forum posts stating how and why the 3500 is not the POS its been said to be by some folks.

Did find out the 4500 swap is a bolt in job as long as you get one from a Chevy V8, NOT a Dodge, AND match up the slave cylinder configuration. External slave to external slave and internal to internal. The two trannys are the same length and the shifter is in the same location. Both have the same Bell housing bolt pattern. The 3500 has an integrated bell housing, so the 4500 will have to be purchased with its own. Both use the same clutch and flywheel config. U can use the same clutch and master cylinder u have for the new 4500. Both bolt up to the np241 IF the spline count is the same. 27 spline or 32 spline. Most np241's on OBS's seem to be 32 spline.

....and there u go.

 

[STEBS]

i know what u mean, i lost my 4th gear snycro, a month later i had an input bearing going out, and had to limp it back and forth to work 20 miles away (fer almost 2 months till i could afford a used trans) in 4th gear doin 65 cuz otherwise it sounded like it was about to shell the bearing and shatter the case, but 4th was quiet and peacefull...go figure

thats sumthing ive been looking and researching answers for cuz i want to swap in a 4500 into mine as i plan on building a hot 383... i am however curious as to what sites u saw sayin the 3500 is a good trans, cuz everywhere i look there aint 1 nice thing said about the 3500 (hence y im changing mine)

 

[STEBS]

i know what u mean, i lost my 4th gear snycro, a month later i had an input bearing going out, and had to limp it back and forth to work 20 miles away (fer almost 2 months till i could afford a used trans) in 4th gear doin 65 cuz otherwise it sounded like it was about to shell the bearing and shatter the case, but 4th was quiet and peacefull...go figure

thats sumthing ive been looking and researching answers for cuz i want to swap in a 4500 into mine as i plan on building a hot 383... i am however curious as to what sites u saw sayin the 3500 is a good trans, cuz everywhere i look there aint 1 nice thing said about the 3500 (hence y im changing mine)

 

[shelbyt.67]

Crap, u hada ask. I went thru a couple a dozen different sites. FSC, Pirate4x4,come to mind. Most of what I found I googled and read the forum post that came up. It ranged from full size hard core 4x4 forums to S-10 and dodge forums. There were alot more complaints than compliments, but ALL of those were from the 6' Lift with 400hp and 40" tires crew. ALL the positive reports were from the average joe drivers.

 

[STEBS]

yea, i went thru so many sites... one site would post the question, and every1s reply had nothing to do with the swap at all, others said move the cross member and driveshaft lengths, im a member on texas4x4 forums and no1 even replied to the question... i never could get a consistant answer about the swap in all my research...


as far as im concerned, i had a 91 4x4 s10 with a 5spd, and my 92 1500 4x4 with a 5spd... both have served me well... the only problem i had with the s10 was the clutch hydrolics (i spent COUNTLESS hrs trying to get the system to bleed all the air) and my 92, i bought the truck over a yr ago and the odometer was stopped at 284k... and ive put well over 20-30k since then, so for the tranny to last that long without problems (not to mention when i changed the fluid it had 80w90 in it instead of syncromesh) thats gotta say alot about the 3500...granted 2 5spds were behind stock configureations, and both trucks were only a v6, so that dont say much lol

 

[94Sierra4x4]

I was looking into this aswell a while ago. Came up with some info about the the spline counts, With a T350, 4L60E or 700R4 tranny, it will be 27 spline. With a T400 or 4L80E trans or 5 speed, it will be 32 spline.

I decided to go with the rebuild of the nv3500 aswell, partly for the warranty I got with the rebuild and the pain of finding an nv4500 in my area. But mostly because when it came down to it, the original lasted a solid 250+ km, and it took a lot of abuse. Just before its death I got lazy and took it for in for an oil changed, they checked the tranny fluid and found that someone had replaced it with something other than synchromesh. Go figure the synchros went out in 1, 3, and 5.

 

[shelbyt.67]

yea, i went thru so many sites... one site would post the question, and every1s reply had nothing to do with the swap at all, others said move the cross member and driveshaft lengths, im a member on texas4x4 forums and no1 even replied to the question... i never could get a consistant answer about the swap in all my research...


as far as im concerned, i had a 91 4x4 s10 with a 5spd, and my 92 1500 4x4 with a 5spd... both have served me well... the only problem i had with the s10 was the clutch hydrolics (i spent COUNTLESS hrs trying to get the system to bleed all the air) and my 92, i bought the truck over a yr ago and the odometer was stopped at 284k... and ive put well over 20-30k since then, so for the tranny to last that long without problems (not to mention when i changed the fluid it had 80w90 in it instead of syncromesh) thats gotta say alot about the 3500...granted 2 5spds were behind stock configureations, and both trucks were only a v6, so that dont say much lol

That was mostly the results I found as well. Thats why it took me ALL freakin nite! Ha! I agree wholeheartedly about the durability of the 3500. I got 245K(miles) and its just now starting to whine. As far as bleedin the clutch, I reverse bleed em. Works much better. Check out my thread;
http://www.gmt400.com/forum/showthread.php?11658-Perfection-Clutch-Master-cylinder-upgrade

I was looking into this aswell a while ago. Came up with some info about the the spline counts, With a T350, 4L60E or 700R4 tranny, it will be 27 spline. With a T400 or 4L80E trans or 5 speed, it will be 32 spline.

I decided to go with the rebuild of the nv3500 aswell, partly for the warranty I got with the rebuild and the pain of finding an nv4500 in my area. But mostly because when it came down to it, the original lasted a solid 250+ km, and it took a lot of abuse. Just before its death I got lazy and took it for in for an oil changed, they checked the tranny fluid and found that someone had replaced it with something other than synchromesh. Go figure the synchros went out in 1, 3, and 5.

Good info thanks. The 4500's gearing ratio's was also a big turn off for me. Much lower, rougher shifting and from the reports much less daily driver friendly. BTW which sychromesh oil do u use?

 

[shelbyt.67]

Found this; Good info on the 3500

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/NV3500.html

 

[94Sierra4x4]

Yeah I certainly did not like the older NV4500 gearing. And I believe the newer ones with a more DD-friendly ratio were an internal slave setup, not external. Making it a little more entertaining to make the swap possible. I'll grab a jug ina bit to get the #'s but its the GM Synchromesh, which apparently there are 2 diff kinds of, (GM parts guy mentioned to me.. not sure if he was right)

However had I known that Royal Purple Synchromax met the standards of these transmissions.. I think i'd be running that.