NOT A LEAN VS RAKE THREAD!

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Steve's Chevy

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Lots of people here know that ive been having handling issues with my truck since day one of the first lift.... This is not another thread about lean is cool or rake sucks, its about handling.. Ok months ago i removed the 7.5" lift and installed a 4" RC spindle and 1" block and i do have some lean, now its not extreme lean but its there!

I was reading on another forum about trucks wandering( And mine does ), and i seen that they mentioned the fact of lean will hinder the handling and control as to where a lil bit of rake seems to be the better of the two for handling. ( truck comes stock with rake, hhmmm kinda makes sense ? ) I have had countless alignments and everything has been replaced twice this last year, No im not kidding!!

So what im asking is , has anyone gone from rake to lean or lean to rake and noticed a difference in handling ?

I have no problem getting a 2" block if this helps, but if not i dont want to waste anymore $ on it...

I know everyone here has had a load in there bed to where it feels like the front tires are barely touching the ground while driving down the road, thats exactly how my truck drives empty......:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

JAngeli

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Lots of people here know that ive been having handling issues with my truck since day one of the first lift.... This is not another thread about lean is cool or rake sucks, its about handling.. Ok months ago i removed the 7.5" lift and installed a 4" RC spindle and 1" block and i do have some lean, now its not extreme lean but its there!

I was reading on another forum about trucks wandering( And mine does ), and i seen that they mentioned the fact of lean will hinder the handling and control as to where a lil bit of rake seems to be the better of the two for handling. ( truck comes stock with rake, hhmmm kinda makes sense ? ) I have had countless alignments and everything has been replaced twice this last year, No im not kidding!!

So what im asking is , has anyone gone from rake to lean or lean to rake and noticed a difference in handling ?

I have no problem getting a 2" block if this helps, but if not i dont want to waste anymore $ on it...

I know everyone here has had a load in there bed to where it feels like the front tires are barely touching the ground while driving down the road, thats exactly how my truck drives empty......:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

With a lean you are shifting the weight balance to the rear, therefore the front will feel lighter and steering may feel a bit more loose. A rake will shift the weight towards the front so the front end will feel more planted.
I know with my rake, if I put a heavy load in the back the front is more loose as the back now is lower creating more of a lean.
 

jps4jeep

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the issue is your changing the caster. Ideally you want about 5-6 degrees of negative caster which means the center line of the ball joints, at the top, will have a slight angle towards the rear. when the you modify the ride height front or rear drastically, you can change these settings. the negative caster is used to help center the wheels while driving, anything less than 5 (maybe 4) degrees or over the 6 (maybe 7) degrees will negatively effect the handling. Now I do not know the difference between rake vs lean, I alway assumed rake was the rear sat higher than the front and lean being something homies do in their 64 impalla's.

most pick up trucks from the factory will have the rear sitting slightly higher in the rear, my understanding for this is that is 1. helps aim the headlights down out of oncoming traffic and more importantly 2. when under heavy load, it will not effect the steering quality as much as a truck that normally sits level and is loaded down.
That light feeling in the steering when loaded down is not a weight transfer issue, it is the addition of more negative camber in the steering.
 

Steve's Chevy

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Thanks for everyones input, maybe we can get somewhere this time.. This is my last alignment specs, maybe you can see what the problem is as the shop will only go by factory specs. I dont blame them, but if its not right its just not right!
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Here is a copy and paste from another forum.
I posted this because of the alignment specs only, not for the reason of the bulletin.




------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- -----

#76-30-01: STEERING WANDER (RESET ALIGN ADJ.REP. STEERING GEAR) - (Jun 13, 1997)


SUBJECT: STEERING WANDER (RESET ALIGNMENT, ADJUST/REPLACE STEERING GEAR)

MODELS: 1997 CHEVROLET AND GMC C/K MODELS EXCLUDING 3500 HD

CONDITION:

AN OWNER MAY COMMENT ABOUT STEERING WANDER OR THE PERCEPTION OF LOOSE STEERING AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS

CORRECTION:

FOLLOW THE STRATEGY BASED DIAGNOSTIC STEPS FOR THE CONDITION USING THE SERVICE MANUAL, SECTION 3B5, SPEED DEPENDENT STEERING, DIAGNOSIS SYSTEM CHECK. PERFORM THE FRONT WHEEL ALIGNMENT PRELIMINARY INSPECTIONS IN SECTION 3A-2. VERIFY THAT THE FRONT SUSPENSION "Z" DIMENSION IS WITHIN SPECIFICATIONS PER THE TRIM HEIGHT CHART ON PAGE 3A-4.

DISCONNECT THE LEFT AND RIGHT TIE ROD ENDS AND CHECK FOR TIGHT OR BINDING BALL JOINTS AND THAT THEY ARE PROPERLY LUBRICATED. IF ALL COMPONENTS AND SPECIFICATIONS ARE CORRECT, ADJUST THE FRONT WHEEL ALIGNMENT TO THE FOLLOWING SPECIFICATIONS.

CASTER 3.80 TO 3.90 DEGREES

CAMBER 0.5 DEGREES +/- 0.5 DEGREES

SUM TOE-IN .24 DEGREES +/- 0.2 DEGREES

IF CONDITION PERSISTS, - ON VEHICLES BELOW 8050# GVW, ADJUST THE STEERING GEAR SPOOL VALVE PRELOAD AND SECTOR PRELOAD FOLLOWING THE PROCEDURE DESCRIBED IN SECTION 3B1A. - ON SUBURBANS EQUIPPED WITH 6.5L DIESEL ENGINE, UNDER 8600# GVW, BUILT PRIOR TO MARCH 5, 1997, REPLACE THE STEERING GEAR WITH P/N 26068771 AND THE EVO MODULE, P/N 16259515. - ON VEHICLES ABOVE 8500# GVW, REPLACE ONLY THE STEERING GEAR WITH P/N 26068771.

PARTS INFORMATION:

P/N DESCRIPTION QTY 26068771 STEERING GEAR 1 16259515 MODULE, EVO 1

PARTS ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FROM GMSPO.

WARRANTY INFORMATION:

FOR VEHICLES REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, USE:

LABOR OP DESCRIPTION LABOR TIME E2020 WHEEL ALIGNMENT - CHECK AND/OR ADJUST USE PUBLISHED E9700 GEAR ASSEMBLY, POWER STEERING - ADJUST LABOR OPERATION E9740 GEAR ASSEMBLY, POWER STEERING - REPLACE TIME E8438 CONTROLLER, EVO - REPLACE E9995 TO CHECK BALL JOINT STIFFNESS IF NO TROUBLE FOUND

IMPORTANT: LABOR OPERATION IS CODED TO BASE VEHICLE COVERAGE IN THE WARRANTY SYSTEM.

FIGURES: 0

CAPTIONS: 0

GENERAL MOTORS BULLETINS ARE INTENDED FOR USE BY PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIANS, NOT A "DO-IT-YOURSELFER". THEY ARE WRITTEN TO INFORM THOSE TECHNICIANS OF CONDITIONS THAT MAY OCCUR ON SOME VEHICLES, OR TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE PROPER SERVICE OF A VEHICLE. PROPERLY TRAINED TECHNICIANS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT, TOOLS, SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND KNOW-HOW TO DO A JOB PROPERLY AND SAFELY. IF A CONDITION IS DESCRIBED, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE BULLETIN APPLIES TO YOUR VEHICLE, OR THAT YOUR VEHICLE WILL HAVE THAT CONDITION. SEE A GENERAL MOTORS DEALER SERVICING YOUR BRAND OF GENERAL MOTORS VEHICLE FOR INFORMATION ON WHETHER YOUR VEHICLE MAY BENEFIT FROM THE INFORMATION.

COPYRIGHT 1997 GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

And another, i have not replaced the PS pump but im going to order one from Rock auto just because.

Variable Effort Steering Description
The electronic variable orifice (EVO) system increases or decreases the amount of fluid leaving the power steering pump. This provides the driver with a comfortable balance of steering wheel feel and power assist.

At vehicle standstill or at very low speeds, the system allows full hydraulic fluid flow for maximum power assist and reduced steering effort. As the vehicle gains speed, a variable orifice closes at the steering pump which reduces the pump fluid flow. This action provides a stiffer steering wheel response for an improved road feel and a greater directional stability at highway speeds.

A sensor mounted on the steering column detects the steering wheel movements associated with defensive driving maneuvers. A control module uses this sensor input and the vehicle speed in order to adjust the amount of current to the solenoid.

The EVO system consists of the following components:

The power steering (PS) solenoid actuator is located on the power steering pump discharged fitting.
The EVO/Passlock™ module is mounted on the instrument panel carrier, beneath the radio.
The steering handwheel speed sensor (HWSS) is located in the lower bearing of the steering column.
The vehicle speed sensor is located on the transmission output shaft or on selectable four wheel drive the transfer case output shaft.
The powertrain control module (PCM) is located in the engine compartment on the left inner wheel well panel (diesel engines only).
The vehicle control module (VCM) is located in the engine compartment on the left inner wheel well panel (gasoline engines only).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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96k1500

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Some lean is ok, around 1"-1 1/2" over that will throw everything off whack and loosen the steering just like having load in the bed
 

Steve's Chevy

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96k1500

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My 96 did the same thing so that wouldnt necessarily fix your issue, any steering system will do that when it is worn out, i say rebuild what you have and level your truck out some and it should fix your issue
 

Steve's Chevy

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My 96 did the same thing so that wouldnt necessarily fix your issue, any steering system will do that when it is worn out, i say rebuild what you have and level your truck out some and it should fix your issue

Did you have the power assisted steering ? i dont think it came out till 97.

The ONLY part i have not changed is the PS pump. there is nothing left to change except the steering column and i doubt that would give me the same problems if it was bad.
 

96k1500

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Even if the steering components are all still good with enough lean your steering will be loose, think of it kinda like a motorcycle, the more you stretch the fork the more unsturdy the steering becomes, the more even the wheel is with where its suppose to be the more stability you have, so the more lean you have the more unstable it bocomes or the more rake even, you have a certain amount of room to play with to keep the steering tight, i would never go over 1.5" of lean or rake
 

Steve's Chevy

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Even if the steering components are all still good with enough lean your steering will be loose, think of it kinda like a motorcycle, the more you stretch the fork the more unsturdy the steering becomes, the more even the wheel is with where its suppose to be the more stability you have, so the more lean you have the more unstable it bocomes or the more rake even, you have a certain amount of room to play with to keep the steering tight, i would never go over 1.5" of lean or rake

This all makes good sense. do you think i have to much now.
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