Time for a SAS!

[WFO4X4]

I am still trying to figure out WHY the trend is toward SAS when even the Baja racers are moving towars IFS. granted, the 1/2 ton set up on GM is very light and weak, but the 3/4 & 1ton are very sturdy.

 

[90chevstepside]

I'm leaning towards sas for several reasons. 1. I've rebuilt the front suspension twice in a year, it's rare that I go for a month or two without something on the ifs grenading on me. I've destroyed wheel bearings just by wheeling lightly. I've had cv axle boots bust on me and keep trying to lock up. I've had an idler arm break and the truck make a B-line for a ditch. I've had ball joints go bad and ruin a wheel bearing. I'm sick of working on it. Granted, I give the ifs hell, and it's not made for that, so since it's not, I'm going sfa. And I plan to own this truck for a LONG long time. I've invested way more than it's worth in it already and there'd be no point in selling it unless I get a crazy high offer on it. Since I'm keeping it, I know it will eventually have a sold axle under it, so why delay it and keep spending time and money on the ifs that I keep destroying?

 

[90chevstepside]

And the Baja crowd is using ifs because of the articulation you get from it. They don't use stock ifs either. They build and beef it up.

 

[WFO4X4]

And the Baja crowd is using ifs because of the articulation you get from it. They don't use stock ifs either. They build and beef it up.

thats my point. they also use 1 ton IFS and not a ****** 1/2 ton. have you priced the IFS swap for a 1 ton?

 

[bggrnchvy]

I am still trying to figure out WHY the trend is toward SAS when even the Baja racers are moving towars IFS. granted, the 1/2 ton set up on GM is very light and weak, but the 3/4 & 1ton are very sturdy.

Baja racers aren't moving towards IFS, they've always been there. Every Chenowth chassis running a VW front end has been IFS. They've also always traditionally been 2wd. Are you suggesting that's the right way to go?

You can't get the front end travel from halfshafts that the arms and spindles can manage. They simple can't cope with the full droop/full lock compound angle. With series 30 CV's you can get reasonable travel (into around 15") from a center mounted diff and without going to uber 100WMS wide. You still need a really really narrow, at this point non-production, diff housing and to run a 1/2 ton rated 9" 3rd or run a machined one off that's exponentially more money than the previous expensive option to run 10" Super 9 gears. TT and C1 mid 20" travel numbers aren't happening.

The 3/4-1ton IFS will puke it's housing just like the 1/2t stuff. Lock it up, put some RCV halfshafts in it and give it a whirl. Fred showed the ultimate failure of the IFS in terms of torque holding to be the diff housing itself and that was on 35's. If the goal is crawling or hard wheeling it is defeatist to try and stick with the stock IFS housings.

The stock suspension rolls down the highway great, manages fields/pastures with stock tires without and issue and is a serious ride improvement over the previous generation of trucks. It is not designed and doesn't handle crawling or large tires well.

 

[WFO4X4]

1/2 ton IFS is way too weak for much of anything, agreed. but if someone knows what theyre doing with a 1 ton IFS it'll be far superior than most expect. IF infact someone is building a crawler or bogger strictly for that purpose and not a DD or even WED, then the sfa is probably cheaper and the way to go. but too many people throw out the fact that IFS can be made to be quite strong if knowledge of proper geometry and limits are understood. i see so many guys come in to the shop after assuming that because they put 35s and a 6" lift on their 4x4 halfy that they're ready to tackle MOAB. reality is that ost of these kits keep things WAY out of spec and the truck just isn't designed to do that IFS or SFA. I personaly would not SAS my truck.

 

[bggrnchvy]

1/2 ton IFS is way too weak for much of anything, agreed. but if someone knows what theyre doing with a 1 ton IFS it'll be far superior than most expect. IF infact someone is building a crawler or bogger strictly for that purpose and not a DD or even WED, then the sfa is probably cheaper and the way to go. but too many people throw out the fact that IFS can be made to be quite strong if knowledge of proper geometry and limits are understood. i see so many guys come in to the shop after assuming that because they put 35s and a 6" lift on their 4x4 halfy that they're ready to tackle MOAB. reality is that ost of these kits keep things WAY out of spec and the truck just isn't designed to do that IFS or SFA. I personaly would not SAS my truck.

How about we stop talking in the hypothetical and you lay out for me the plan and cost?

I could handily design and build a live IFS that will keep up with a live axled rig on mild trails (Upper Helldorado and Highway 20 ilk not to be considered), but it would definitely be a lot more expensive than just tossing a leaf sprung 60 under the front end like most people do.

 

[90chevstepside]

Kyle, I wish I could sit with you for a few hours and just learn the most I can.

And yes my truck is a dd but I drive 20 miles at most a day. If you count time, I spend more time off the road, than on the road. The ifs on gmt400 trucks wasn't built for wheeling. You are correct there, but since it's not, I'm making the truck more capable and that means taking out ifs.

 

[WFO4X4]

How about we stop talking in the hypothetical and you lay out for me the plan and cost?

In reality, it's not worth my time. however, if you want to hire me as a designer.... my salary would be about 80k..... i could use a new job anyway. I'll let you know however, i've not designed alot of front suspensions, just repaired too many of them.

I could handily design and build a live IFS that will keep up with a live axled rig on mild trails (Upper Helldorado and Highway 20 ilk not to be considered), but it would definitely be a lot more expensive than just tossing a leaf sprung 60 under the front end like most people do.

I'm not exactly sure why you'd ask me to come join your crew when from the looks of it you're completely able. i am humbled by the offer though. but would i actually need to move to Cali? or could we meet in the middle, let say.... colorado?

 

[WFO4X4]

And yes my truck is a dd but I drive 20 miles at most a day. If you count time, I spend more time off the road, than on the road. The ifs on gmt400 trucks wasn't built for wheeling. You are correct there, but since it's not, I'm making the truck more capable and that means taking out ifs.

have you looked into an old CUCV? those things are practicaly bullet proof. one of those rigs would possibly be cheaper than a SAS and... you could make it a crawler/wheeler and tow it around w the current truck you've got....