my SAS ?'s thread

[Swims350]

ok so most of you know I usually ask alot about it and post in other threads, so I figured I'd start my own.

Now here's some questions I have on doing a solid axle swap, be on my 88 k1500.

For steering, can you use everything from say the squarebody trucks and such from 73-87 blazer and burbs etc. of that same body style and solid front axle?

Would it work if you used it all but got the drop pitman arm like ord? or oru sells? Then use the stock 10 bolt chevy front with the stock ds steering arm?

a raised like lift kit ds steering arm?

Or no you'd HAVE to convert to the crossover ord or oru style?

If so do you have to buy the DS arm and the PS one? I know they aint cheap like $135 or so a piece.

Next up on springs, see tons say 52 's are too flexy for street, well add a leafs increase the spring rate so would they stiffen it up enough to work on the street? Or what about using lifted rear springs that are 52's but are stiffer like say rough country or something? I know the 47 rough country's are very rough and stiff.

Also for front leaf mounts, some of you have used the squarebody front hangers from the rear of the trucks and such, would a gmt400 rear end front spring hanger work?

When I say rear end, I mean just that the REAR or back diff/axle, and front end is exactly that the front axle.

I know I'll find more questions to ask so I'll update when I think of them.


I'm looking at trying this one day, but as cheap as possible and I don't have much welding or fab skills, which would really help I know.

I see alot of you guys use alot of squarebody stuff and bolt on or weld, like front spring front hangers, and rear spring front or rear hangers for the rear of the front leafs to bolt uo on the gmt400's.

I am very interested in that, and using a gm 10 bolt since I'd think it may be cheaper and easier for me to find, if not then a ford axle for sure, I'd like to keep my eyes open for either.

I know if I do the chevy axle I'd have to crossmember fab or something to make a PS drop 241c from the later squarebody burbs and such work to keep vss, OR use a converter on the speedo, I would HAVE to keep and have a sppedo that's for sure.

I'd love to build this and it'd be mostly street use.

 

[jps4jeep]

For steering, In the past I have built my own using off the shelf TRE or heims. For my current sas project, I simply bought the ruff stuff kit when they were having a sale, for what I normally pay for TRE's and 12ft of 1.5-.25 wall DOM, I got the kit which also comes with weld in bungs and jam nuts.

For pitman arm, I am running a stock XJ pitman arm, it was free, and it fits perfectly, even keyways off the steering shaft the same as the stock GM. I posted pics in my build thread in this section.

You don't "need" high steer, you can drill out the knuckles and run stacked heim joints on the top of the TRE mount or use the 1-ton TRE and drill and re-ream to the correct pitch.

Leaf springs, people that say 52's are too flexy do not have the correct valving in their shocks, springs simply support the vehicle's weight, shocks dampen that spring. the spring you choose really boils down to what your going to do with the vehicle. everyday daily driver with little to no wheeling, run a 47" spring, it will work and be easy to build around. If your going to wheel, 52's are a minimum (or link it.) My only experience with leafs in the front of a OBS was my old truck. I ran Rancho 44044 in my old 92 SAS which are lift springs for waggoneers, they are about 45" and I was always displeased with the offroad performance, I would venture to guess that a 47 would not be that much different.

Axle choice is really up to you and is dependant on the intent of the vehicle, if you are going to wheel the truck at all, I would not waste any time with a 10 bolt or 44, go right to a D50 or D60 at a minimum. I am seeing more and more trucks being built with ford SD axles and they should not be over looked. I would also suggest avoiding 94+ dodge D60's at all cost as well if your gonna wheel it.

This is not all end all be all approach, but this is what has worked and not worked for me, it is my experience and not really just something I have read on the net.

 

[outalne94z71]

You don't "need" high steer, you can drill out the knuckles and run stacked heim joints on the top of the TRE mount or use the 1-ton TRE and drill and re-ream to the correct pitch.

heim joint especially in single shear should not be used for steering on a road used vehicle and in many states may not be legal

Leaf springs, people that say 52's are too flexy do not have the correct valving in their shocks, springs simply support the vehicle's weight, shocks dampen that spring. the spring you choose really boils down to what your going to do with the vehicle. everyday daily driver with little to no wheeling, run a 47" spring, it will work and be easy to build around. If your going to wheel, 52's are a minimum (or link it.) My only experience with leafs in the front of a OBS was my old truck. I ran Rancho 44044 in my old 92 SAS which are lift springs for wagoneers, they are about 45" and I was always displeased with the offroad performance, I would venture to guess that a 47 would not be that much different.

shock valving is not the issue, its the spring rate,my bds 8" lift 52's were too soft of a rate for a big block, the packs were too neutral meaning when you hit the brakes it would nosedive and not come back up but if you backed up and hit the brakes it would come up and stay up, the biggest curve aal bds makes is what i used to cure it, it was not as much a issue with the olds 455 i had in it originally as that is 80# lighter, a sbc powered truck also may get away without adding a aal or use springs from another company with a stiffer spring rate.

 

[Swims350]

thanks for the info, it would keep the sbc, and I have no OD trans so that's not an issue either, just wan something still street legal, meaning speedo works and nothing that would not pass.

 

[Swims350]

ok another question....

if I use a chevy front axle (10 bolt)

do I have to use or find a flat top knuckle to make it work?

 

[Swims350]

ok I answered my own question, 10 bolts don't have the flat tops you have to find one and have it machined or buy one.


So what axle can be used to bolt right in for crossover/hi steer?

I wouldn't use crossover if I didn't have to but everyone says it's a must right?

even if I find a d44 from a ford or chevy it'd need the ps knuckle machined and then buy the arm too right?

d60 being the same way or just buy the arm to bolt on top of the d60 no machine work?

 

[jps4jeep]

heim joint especially in single shear should not be used for steering on a road used vehicle and in many states may not be legal

I fail to see your logic here regarding legality of a heim versus a TRE. aren't TRE in single sheer? I've run heims, both single and double sheer for years on road driven vehicles. assuming that you assemble/secure the joint correctly, small misalignment spacer so that the heim body does not contact the knuckle and use a grade 8 bolt with castle nut, you will be right as rain.

I do not have the sheer value of a TRE and I will research this to verify or provide actual numbers. I would anticipate the grade 8 bolt to be significantly stronger than a TRE.

shock valving is not the issue, its the spring rate,my bds 8" lift 52's were too soft of a rate for a big block, the packs were too neutral meaning when you hit the brakes it would nosedive and not come back up but if you backed up and hit the brakes it would come up and stay up, the biggest curve aal bds makes is what i used to cure it, it was not as much a issue with the olds 455 i had in it originally as that is 80# lighter, a sbc powered truck also may get away without adding a aal or use springs from another company with a stiffer spring rate.

what you describing sounds more like a improperly designed front end and not an improper spring rate. A properly valved shock would dampen your "nose dive" by absorbing the force of the mass when compressing the front suspension, but niether spring rate of dampening have nothing to do with returning to ride height. That said you are also running a 8" lift spring which is a whole different animal than a near flat stock spring. As for the suspension squatting, sounds like 1. your shackle angle is less than ideal and your inverting the shackle locking the spring down. 2. your shackle bolts are too tight 3. your spring clamps might be binding. It sounds like what you added the AAL you limited the ability of the spring to compress and not allow what or where ever the binding was occuring to not occur

I wheel (and wheel hard) with plenty of people that run 52"s all the way to 63's (or 64 depends on who measures it) in the front with various motors and weights and none of them have any of the issues you described.

I write this not to insult you or your design, I am simply guessing based on my experience and not intending to get in a pissing match.

 

[jps4jeep]

ok I answered my own question, 10 bolts don't have the flat tops you have to find one and have it machined or buy one.


So what axle can be used to bolt right in for crossover/hi steer?

I wouldn't use crossover if I didn't have to but everyone says it's a must right?

even if I find a d44 from a ford or chevy it'd need the ps knuckle machined and then buy the arm too right?

d60 being the same way or just buy the arm to bolt on top of the d60 no machine work?

There is not a factory d44 or 10 bolt axle that will not require machining the pass side to bolt on hi-steer arms. The only factory axles that you can truely just bolt on the hi-steer arms are the King Pin axles, D60 and D70. I believe there are bolt on Hi steer kits for the Ball Joint 60's and the later D50 and 60 superduty axles. I have never used them, I believe they are made by currie, but not positive.
For the D44 you can bolt on aftermarket knuckles from Reid Racing and they will have the hi-steer provisions.

there was a guy on ebay years ago who would machine your knuckles for $60, you shipp him your knuckle, he machines it and sends it back, not sure if he is still in business.

 

[Swims350]

ok another question, how come reg. squarebody steering won't work? pitman arm and steering arm and all, that way the drag link is below the leafs, does the arm or tie rods hit the ds leaf or something?

Or just because the gmt400 steering box is inside the frame where the squarebody sits outside being shorter distance between the gear box and the ds knuckle?

 

[jps4jeep]

If your referring to a 73-87 box, the 4wd box is a push/pull box, the pitman ARM looks like a horse shoe. When you cross over steering these trucks they look for a 2wd box. Which is in application the same as a gmt400 box.

Do you NEED cross over steering?