Ability and Pros/Cons

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DGA1

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I considered a stroker, but when this 454 fell in my lap it was a no-brainer.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk (for lack of a stronger term, since I can't type what I really wanted to) about it, I just figured that's what these forums are for right? To discuss and debate differing opinion to end up with a better result overall.

On that note, anyone still want to argue the "big block is too much weight" assessment? Hell, we'll throw in full truck weight and what all can affect that as well, just for fun.

You are right, that is what the forum is for, discussion, and I don't think you were a jerk in the slightest.

I'll argue the weight side of things. :) My '96 GMC K1500, SLT, Z71, with an extra cab, 8' bed, 5.7L, 4L60E, 14-bolt SF, and nearly optioned out on the inside, weighs in at 5,200 lbs. I'm guessing that a big 7.4L is going to require bigger springs, or torsion bars as well as a 4l80E. You are adding at least few hundred pounds worth of weight that you just can't remedy. Mind you this is coming from someone that consider a 5.7L a big engine. Even though I've had a few SBC equipped vehicles in my life, my main knowledge is in motorcycles and 4-cylider engines, where weight is paramount.

In all of this cost is the big question mark.
 

Parentnoia

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You are right, that is what the forum is for, discussion, and I don't think you were a jerk in the slightest.

I'll argue the weight side of things. :) My '96 GMC K1500, SLT, Z71, with an extra cab, 8' bed, 5.7L, 4L60E, 14-bolt SF, and nearly optioned out on the inside, weighs in at 5,200 lbs. I'm guessing that a big 7.4L is going to require bigger springs, or torsion bars as well as a 4l80E. You are adding at least few hundred pounds worth of weight that you just can't remedy. Mind you this is coming from someone that consider a 5.7L a big engine. Even though I've had a few SBC equipped vehicles in my life, my main knowledge is in motorcycles and 4-cylider engines, where weight is paramount.

In all of this cost is the big question mark.
You kinda contradicted yourself. You described remedies for more weight then turned around and said that some weight can't be remedied.
 

DGA1

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You kinda contradicted yourself. You described remedies for more weight then turned around and said that some weight can't be remedied.

Huh? Where did I describe any remedies short of staying with the 5.7?

If you add the 7.4 you are just tacking on more weight that you can't get rid of to support the bigger engine. That was my whole point.
 

Parentnoia

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Huh? Where did I describe any remedies short of staying with the 5.7?

If you add the 7.4 you are just tacking on more weight that you can't get rid of to support the bigger engine. That was my whole point.
Beefier springs/suspension and a 4L80e is all I meant.
 

DGA1

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Beefier springs/suspension and a 4L80e is all I meant.

I'm still not catching on to what you are trying to say, but no big deal. Either way you go, the 7.4, or staying with the current 5.7, you can't go wrong. It the end it just comes down to preference, what works for you, and how big of a wallet you've got.
 

VorTecxas

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I'm still not catching on to what you are trying to say, but no big deal. Either way you go, the 7.4, or staying with the current 5.7, you can't go wrong. It the end it just comes down to preference, what works for you, and how big of a wallet you've got.

I saw you mentioned you have a Z71, that does make a difference as well in weight and etc. Where as I was talking about my 2WD, which is considerably lighter (without diving too far in, I am less a transfer case, another driveshaft, heavier rear, and front axles), not mention I have a stepside bed, which is primarily fiberglass and has less area than an 8' fleetside, let alone a short box. Which then puts our trucks into two different categories that you cannot truly compare fairly.

First, I will not need heavier springs in the front, as I have done a similar swap with a heavier engine into a lighter truck using the same springs as a '96, and it sat, handled, and wore tires exactly like it should, therefore I am assuming (from past success) that I will not have to. (Long story short, '84 SWB GMC, broke a spring, pulled used ones from a '96 at a scrapyard. Then put a Pontiac 400/TH375 into it, replacing the 305/TH350 that I had a lot of fun blowing up) Pontiac engines are heavier than Chevy's, yet still manage to beat them cube for cube. At least, all of MY Pontiacs have never seen a Chevy's taillights.

But I digress, back to topic. Since 2WDs were the discussion starters, we will stick with that. Starting with curb weight differences in an everyday ECSB Fleetside and ECSB Stepside (I gathered a few weights from different sites and averaged them, to be fair)

Stepside - Approx 4600lbs (bare, no driver, toolbox, sound system, etc)
Fleetside - Approx 4800lbs (same)

And I'd like to point out that I had already factored the difference of weight in transmissions in my initial argument as well (since that was mentioned as an add-on in your rebuttal). So, about a 200lb difference between SS and FS, give or take. If you remember, the difference between the 350/4L60E and 454/4L80E was approx 207 lbs. Just by having the Stepside, I am already ahead in the weight game, as I am now approximately the same as a Fleetside, and am putting out more power at lower RPMs (which is what you want in a street vehicle).

Now, since I am the one who is doing the swap and explaining why I have nothing weight-wise to worry about, I will use my truck as an example. A jobsite that I visit weekly has a scale (for incoming freight) and I decided to weigh my truck about two weeks ago, just out of curiosity. It weighed 4,300 lbs without me in it, so with me its 4,520.

Things to consider when I weighed it -
1/2 tank of gas
Aluminum toolbox with very little in it besides basic sockets and hand tools (I had just cleaned it out)
Bucket seats with no center console. Originally had a 60/40 bench
New carpet (you would really be surprised how damn heavy your stock carpet is, damn near knocked me over as I pulled it out replacing it)
No bedliner (it takes about 3 gallons to do it yourself, more if it's done professionally. Go lift a gallon next time you're at the parts store and tell me that doesn't matter)
Clutch fan and shroud removed
CAI (if you have one pick it up in one hand and your stock intake in the other, there's quite a difference)
No hitch
Overload springs removed

And other little odds and ends. So, now when I put my 454 in - which will weigh even less than the argued weight of 945lbs due to headers instead of manifolds, removal of smog equipment, injector swap (pick up a Multec and an LS1 injector, the Multecs are much heavier), and removal of the clutch fan - my truck will STILL weigh less, or maybe the same as, a bone stock Stepside.

My point is, EVERY little bitty thing you do adds up. Or subtracts, depending on what you're doing. Next time you're changing something, compare the difference in your hands, you may be surprised. Something as simple as a radio, my JVC I installed was considerably lighter than my factory unit. My electric fan is MUCH lighter than the clutch fan and does a much better job. Those damn overload springs are surprisingly heavy for what they are. However, when I installed my drop hangers, they were heavier than the stock ones. My steel SS wheels are heavier than the factory aluminum ones (I'm swapping those out too in exchange for aftermarket aluminums, so there's MORE weight gone!).

I guess my whole point is, the "big block will make your truck weigh more so it's not worth it" generalization is inaccurate and very misinformed, since everyone's truck (or any vehicle for that matter) and setup is different.

The same with the "big blocks cost more" generalization as well. Which, granted, is true more often, but is still not a concrete argument. My case in point being that I have started and abandoned the big block route twice before my current attempt, (primarily due to insufficient time more than funds) and have never lost money (in fact, made quite a nice profit both times) after selling the parts off or spent more than I would have on the small block to get the same output.

Back to the Pontiac topic I started earlier, I am working on using a factory L29 harness and PCM to run MPFI and a 4L80E with a Pontiac big block. Then THAT will be what ultimately goes into my truck.

I'm sorry I can't go into more detail, I would really like to and do have much more to input. But my kiddo is hungry, and I just can't deny a hungry little boy his pizza. :D
 

Parentnoia

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I'm working with a Suburban right now and that's an entirely different can of worms. And why should you be worried about weight in a street vehicle?

Sorry if I say/ask stupid things at times, this is the more informative source I've found without having to compile things from across the internet.
 

VorTecxas

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I'm working with a Suburban right now and that's an entirely different can of worms. And why should you be worried about weight in a street vehicle?

Sorry if I say/ask stupid things at times, this is the more informative source I've found without having to compile things from across the internet.

Weight does still matter in a street vehicle, though not nearly as much as full race or dedicated off-road vehicles, but primarily for fuel efficiency and payload purposes instead of performance. As far as a couple hundred pounds - no, it does not matter in a street vehicle, that will change constantly with passengers, amount of fuel in the tank, whatever you've got in the bed, etc.

I'm just having a friendly discussion with DGA1 on the generalizations typically made of big block vs small block, not really about whos wrong or right, but getting information before making assumptions. And that goes for anything, not just car talk.
 

Parentnoia

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Friendly discussions still enlighten those that witness them.

I live in a town where the big fad is 22 inch rims on Crown Vics and the few nice trucks that you can tell are worked on are diesels.
 

VorTecxas

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this topic is why i like the LS motors so much... ive built 350's 406's 434's big blocks so on and so on but i will give them all up for a LS motor...

I agree that the LS engines are a superior design, all of our fleet trucks are 6.0s and they're awesome, our workhorse truck is a 4 door long bed with a full service bed full to the top with tools, a Hobart generator/welder, 60 gallon air compressor, and 50 gallon diesel tank. That truck never ceases to amaze me how it still hauls ass with all that weight. Just for s and giggles I raced my buddies '95 (VERY good running stock truck but hey, it's still a TBI) and flat out smoked him. That service truck has to weigh three times what his does.

BUT I like being able to reach back into an endless supply of decades worth of GM performance that will all still just bolt on, are much cheaper than LS parts, and can be tuned in without an issue. I'd be willing to bet dollar for dollar I could make that 7.4 whip any LS. Not to mention, you just can't beat the nasty sound of a big block. :D

That being said, the 6.0 swap is still in the back of my head, because it does still have a large aftermarket support as well as the reliability. Though I doubt I ever will, I'm a Pontiac man at heart, and will have an injected Pontiac in my truck in the future.
 
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