Known problems for 4L60E shifts

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95OBSMan

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94 Chevy SCLB C2500 5.7 TBI 4L60E just a little over 150K on it.

The truck spent its entire life here in southern Utah, 1st owner took great care of the truck, i.e. servicing etc...

This is now my friends truck, I've done a tune-up consisting of cap & rotor, plug wires & plugs, oil and filter this was at 152K

Replaced battery and starter, alternator was putting out about 13.9 to 14.1 volts at this time. Test drove the truck and it drove and worked as it should. As of 2 weeks ago.

There are no service records of tranny service nor signs of tranny pan removal for servicing, the truck belonged to an older gentleman who passed and the son stated his dad never pulled anything with the truck, just drove it as a DD. So there's a quick history of the truck.

A couple of days after doing the starter and battery my friend called and said the truck isn't running right, go to his house, cold start, starts up as it should, placed shift lever in D w/circle and off we go, engine and trans are cold still, up shift from 1st to 2nd hard like the tranny had a B&M shift kit put in it, 3rd to 4th not quit as hard on the up shifts, downs shifts are nice and smooth, this was done several times in town driving, continued this with same results until tranny was at operating temp, went to highway driving, shifts at this time where the same, up shifts where somewhat slow and hit hard but shifted all the way up to 4th or over drive, no grinding nosies, no smell of "burnt" tranny fluid, no leaks, while continuing at highway speeds 75mph pulled shift lever down to 3 position and the tranny did as designed to do smooth down shift from over drive to 3rd gear while RPM's increased as expected to.

While exiting highway shift lever still in 3 position down shifts where nice and smooth, still leaving shift lever in same position entering local traffic on surface street up shifts where as stated a little slow and hit hard, my foot on gas pedal remained slow and steady with firm pressure through out the shifting process, I tried this with the shift lever in the D w/ circle, with the same results, up shifts are a little slow and hard, but the down shifts nice and smooth.

No visible signs of external leaks, except for a drip from the speed sensor ( I believe ) at rear of tail shaft on drivers side, no drips or leaks from tail shaft where yoke is, all U-joints are tight, no clunk when going in to reverse or forward positions. I have looked at the wiring going to the tranny and appears to be ok, and no signs of abuse or abnormal wear or chaffing etc...

1- Tranny fluid on dip stick does not smell or look burnt, but is dirty.
2- No signs of gunk build up around electrical plug(s) except for the very small drip from the speed sensor at the rear of tail shaft, I'm not sure if that is what that is called.
3- He as like me are NOT heavy footed, burn rubber drivers, just every day guys going to and from work on our local streets average speed limits of 35 or 45mph roads.

So like the rest of us, not a lot of money to throw at this, and trying to help my friend,

1- Drop tranny fluid and replace w/new fluid and filter.
2- Double check all clean all electrical connections.
3- TPS? is this located on the TBI unit passenger side, and is there a way to test it?
4- The sensor at the rear of tail shaft, can this be tested? The speedo in the gauge cluster works with no fluttering or bouncing what so ever.

Or is this an internal problem? I'm I missing something, all shifting is being done by electronics, there's no vacuum lines to this tranny correct?
Any input or advice on this would be gratefully appreciated, I hoping from the knowledge here that its something simple and not to costly for him, but then again that doesn't always go that way! Thanks for any help!
 

NickTransmissions

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94 Chevy SCLB C2500 5.7 TBI 4L60E just a little over 150K on it.
Put a bi-directional scan tool that displays live engine and transmission data (may be tricky to do given it's OBD1) and look at all of your engine management and transmission sensors. Check the TPS and MAF or equivalent for function, rule each in or out as the problem and scan for codes...

Vehicle speed sensor is not likely to be the problem as they either work or they don't and the one in the transmission in question seems to be working fine. If the above things don't show as problematic, drop the pan, remove the 1-2 accumulator housing, blow the little piston out of the housing via shop air and look for a broken 1-2 outer return spring for that piston...They sometimes break, resulting in a harsh, late 1-2 upshift and will not cause a DTC to set or store (to my knowledge, no years of 4L60/65/70E will generate a code for this sort of failure). if you see a whole bunch of burnt clutch material or any metal shavings, aluminum or bronze colored sand-like material or pieces of gear teeth, put the pan back on with a few bolts, yank it out and either rebuild or replace it.

If the 1-2 acc springs are in good shape, nothing alarming in the pan, the next step is the servo. Remove the servo assembly and replace all the o-rings and teflon seals...I'd also replace the serve with an 093 Corvette servo which will produce a slightly firmer shift but give you better, more robust band apply/hold in 2nd gear. Sometimes the teflon scarf cut sealing rings and/or 2nd gear servo pin bore can wear a bit causing a late apply owing to the fact fluid that normally would go to applying the servo to hold the band is leaking past the sealing rings and bore requiring higher line pressures to bear in order to get the servo fully applied. This can happen later than intended thus the late, harsher shift.

At 150K, assuming the transmission is original and never been touched other than perhaps fluid/filter changes, it's likely going to need a rebuild sooner rather than later...
 

95OBSMan

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Thank you very much Nick!! Not to in depth, but what I was looking for... I don't have a bi-directional scan tool, so its going to be a lot of visual checks and the use of a multimeter. I should be able to find out here how to test the TPS and MAF.

As soon as I drop the tranny pan, I figured if I saw what you have stated in the fluid in my drain pan or in/on the filter itself then button it back up and let him make the call on the rebuild/replacement tranny.

If all looks well at the fluid/filter level then I will do as instructed with the accumulator assembly's for 1-2, check springs and replace as needed, I'm willing to learn new things and gain knowledge so forgive me for what would be common to you, so the servo will be inside the tranny itself, IIRC it will have the wires going to it? A wiring harness, correct?

So armed with this info, lets say it needs acc spring(s) then replace servo with the 093 vette one, button everything back up add fluid and test drive, alls well, it hard to say how much more mileage he will get from this work done to it?

So trying to read between the lines, he may be money ahead by just having me R&R the tranny, he'll get a warranty on the tranny and I can help him save some$$$ on the labor end of it.

He's bringing it to the house tomorrow and I'll dive into it after work and see what I find. Thanks again for the straight forward info which to you is common, but helps me out greatly, at least I can shoot straight with him and see what he thinks, I know on my end pulling tranny and stabbing a new one in is easy for me. I'll post back with an update as to which route he wants to go!! Thanks again!!
 

NickTransmissions

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Thank you very much Nick!! Not to in depth, but what I was looking for... I don't have a bi-directional scan tool, so its going to be a lot of visual checks and the use of a multimeter. I should be able to find out here how to test the TPS and MAF.

As soon as I drop the tranny pan, I figured if I saw what you have stated in the fluid in my drain pan or in/on the filter itself then button it back up and let him make the call on the rebuild/replacement tranny.

If all looks well at the fluid/filter level then I will do as instructed with the accumulator assembly's for 1-2, check springs and replace as needed, I'm willing to learn new things and gain knowledge so forgive me for what would be common to you, so the servo will be inside the tranny itself, IIRC it will have the wires going to it? A wiring harness, correct?

So armed with this info, lets say it needs acc spring(s) then replace servo with the 093 vette one, button everything back up add fluid and test drive, alls well, it hard to say how much more mileage he will get from this work done to it?

So trying to read between the lines, he may be money ahead by just having me R&R the tranny, he'll get a warranty on the tranny and I can help him save some$$$ on the labor end of it.

He's bringing it to the house tomorrow and I'll dive into it after work and see what I find. Thanks again for the straight forward info which to you is common, but helps me out greatly, at least I can shoot straight with him and see what he thinks, I know on my end pulling tranny and stabbing a new one in is easy for me. I'll post back with an update as to which route he wants to go!! Thanks again!!
You're welcome, man...No wires going to either the Servo or 1-2 accumulator housing...The harness is connected to the two shift solenoids (A and B), Electronic pressure control solenoid, pressure switch manifold assembly, PWM solenoid, 3-2 control solenoid and TCC control / lock-up solenoid (the harness and TCC lock up solenoid are 'together').

If you can R/R the trans, you will likely save him between 400-800 or so depending on what your local market bears for shops doing such work (out here a 2WD 4L60E R/R job is between $600-800 depending on shop, etc.).

That said, if the pan is otherwise unremarkable (i.e. no kibbles and bits, excessive black clutch material or sand like aluminum/bronze colored matter or anything else suspicious) then perhaps you simply have him buy a Vette Servo and SK4L60E shift kit and install it for him...It will have parts needed to improve hydraulics, address any broken 1-2 acc springs and improve shifting overall. All you need to do is follow the instructions to the letter and you'll be fine. I would also recommend replacing the boost valve with a Sonnax boost valve and spring (you have to remove the pre-existing boost valve from the pump to install the shift kit springs for the pressure regulator valve, anyway) so it's worth doing...You will need internal / external snap ring pliers, an inch lb torque wrench, 8mm socket, 10mm socket, pics and small flat head screw drivers, roll pin punch, small hammer and a clean workspace...If you decide to take on this work, I'll give you a few other tips/pointers that aren't found in the Transgo kit that will further improve things for the trans...All of this is with the caveat that the pan and fluid are ok, nothing burnt, etc...

It's impossible to say how much longer it will last, at least until you have the pan off. Once it's off, you'll have a better idea of the overall health of the unit.

Check out my many 4L60E videos, including tear down and valve body/shift kit vids on my YT channel...I take you through step by step on what to do and how to do it.

Let me know if you have any further questions.
 

95OBSMan

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WOW!! I didn't know you had a YT channel, man thats awesome!!!

He'll pay at least @800 Bennys just for the labor alone here, these shops are insane on there prices, not to mention are you really getting what your paying for, its sad how things have changed and the bad rep that good mechanics get, yes I said mechanic, not a tech, mechanic's can rebuild and fix things, tech..well we know how that goes, that line is so blurred!! I won't get on a rant about that!!

I think I will try and steer him towards a rebuild w/ warranty and be able to give him piece of mind on that.
I'll follow your advice and watch your videos for my tranny and do the upgrades to mine that way if I make a mistake its on my tranny and not his... I can afford a mistake in that area where he can't and this is his main ride, most of it is a piece of mind for me concerning his tranny. We severed together, just don't want to let him down or have the truck let him down either, good friends are hard to come by these days, he'd understand if it didn't work or I screw something up, but its that Oh I sh*t the bed, hang on buddy I'll get it fixed feeling, and in the mean time his truck is on my rack going back under the wrench's!

movietvet, yes I'm glad its a 2wd instead of a 4wd!! At least we can catch a break sometimes!! And yes I figured I could take his word to the bank!!
 
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