'93 K1500 engine swap

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Erik the Awful

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I will look you up when I need advice on how long to run on bald tires though! LOL!
Hey, I might be cheap, but I do have standards!

It is currently less then 10 psi port at the oil filter boss
That's information you didn't include earlier. I don't trust the dash gauge. Yeah, if you're planning on some long trips and the oil pressure's 10 psi at the filter port, and it's knocking, I'd swap it now, too. My RX-7 used to read 0 psi at idle, 30 psi at 7000 rpm, and I put another 20k on that motor. It wasn't low oil pressure that killed it.
 

Trlrider

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Hey, I might be cheap, but I do have standards!


That's information you didn't include earlier. I don't trust the dash gauge. Yeah, if you're planning on some long trips and the oil pressure's 10 psi at the filter port, and it's knocking, I'd swap it now, too. My RX-7 used to read 0 psi at idle, 30 psi at 7000 rpm, and I put another 20k on that motor. It wasn't low oil pressure that killed it.
LOL! I here ya! Will be running up through your neck of the woods in late the later part of June heading to Nebraska.
The new engine is sitting in the Sub, will start working out the fine details tomorrow. Have to make some mods to the intake for the brake booster and brackets. The rest should be easy peasy.
 

Trlrider

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No Joy on getting it running today.
Too many gotcha's showed up from the previous owners mechanics monkeying around. Did not like some of the wiring repairs, so had to fix that and route them correctly for my liking and less trouble once the headers were installed.
Still some brackets to modify for the throttle/cruise cables and brake booster vacuum line.
Also found out I had the wrong intake gaskets. Ughh!
 

Trlrider

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Update:
Last evening was the first time since this journey began that I actually enjoyed driving this truck again.
We are on about the 15th modified .bin file and found a timing table and VE tables this combo seems to like.
After getting the distributor worked out, throttle linkage brackets modified, coil mounted on the firewall out of the way and a few other tweaks due to the taller intake and spacers.

Started out with a modified original .bin - major headache as the stock TBI and the SBC were just too far apart. Emissions timing tables are very weak.
Next tried the Vortec Spark Advance tables in both factory and smoothed profiels, again she just kicked and farted and no power. Tinkered that for awhile and looked at data logs and well, it ran but not the way this engine should run.

Took a Iron Head LT1 file and set up the timing tables in a $OD mask/.bin and it made a big difference. Data logged a couple of drives and made some fuel table adjustments with the '8625 pcm to start removing some of the rich areas.
Last night after tweaking the LT1 file and smoothing out some SA and VE peaks took it for a drive to the parts house. Was running well, but fuel trims just way off.
Remembered I had a '7427 pcm in the truck.
So at the parts house popped out the '8625, swapped the memcal over to the '7427 - started it up and instantly noticed a difference in the INT/BLM numbers, setup the logger, hit record and off we went.
Bingo! Fuel trims now closer, timing table feels relatively close and fuel mileage showed a substantial increase. Highway On-Ramps - now has the get up and get there performance to not worry about getting on the highway.
Log still shows some fuel rich areas above 2400 rpm, that will be worked out as time goes on.
This engine with the TBI sitting on top is now closer to what it felt like when it had a carb. Granted the K5 had 3.73 gearing on a 700R4 and quite abit lighter then the Suburban with 3.42's and a 4L60E, but we are getting happy and closer to the long runs later this summer.

Notes:
Ultimate TBI Mods not done.
Updated Fuel Pump not done.
Functional Hood Scoop for Cold Air Intake and Air Box not done.(still pulling air from the fender)
Salad Bowl needs to be blend to the Air Cleaner base.

Nationals for out son is less then 2 weeks away, so it will be a while before those changes get made, then another round of tuning.
 

Schurkey

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We have never found a need to drill the heads and usually plug the bypass port anyway if using the Vortec water pump. We have done an old stock car trick from decades back, and put steam lines on the rear of the head and tie them into the thermostat housing.
Yeah, that's popular in the racing world, where there's no heater core and the engine is run at heavy throttle/high rpm for long periods.

Pointless on the street.

There's no need to plug the hole in the block if the Vortec heads haven't been drilled to provide bypass flow--the heads themselves block the passage.

Drilling a couple of 3/16" holes in the thermostat also eliminates the need for the bypass.
If there's no other bypass, that's a reasonable solution. If the engine has a heater core with no shutoff valve, you're just screwing-up a thermostat. The vehicle takes longer to warm-up, and may not achieve proper operating temperature in cold weather.

NOT recommended on any vehicle that has some other bypass system--the OEM drillings, a non-regulated heater core, etc.

Last evening was the first time since this journey began that I actually enjoyed driving this truck again.
We are on about the 15th modified .bin file and found a timing table and VE tables this combo seems to like.
I'm surprised you needed all that custom tuning. I'd have expected that engine to be close enough to stock that the OEM chip would have worked reasonably well in terms of driveability.

Perhaps not for performance, though.

Notes:
Ultimate TBI Mods not done.
Is there ANY actual evidence that the "Ultimate TBI mods" make any improvement? I haven't seen any. I'm VERY skeptical. I think the "Ultimate TBI mods" are a heaping-helping of crap promoted by someone with too much time on their hands, and access to a Dremel. Looks pretty, makes a guy feel like he's "done something", but in the end, it's all cosmetic, not functional. What's being worked on and "smoothed" isn't the restriction.

Functional Hood Scoop for Cold Air Intake and Air Box not done.(still pulling air from the fender)
EVERY functional OEM application of "hood scoop air" or "Cowl induction" has the throttle-body (carb or FI) sealed to the cold-air intake, with rubber or foam seals. You DO NOT want hood-scoop air flowing into the engine compartment, because it interferes with engine cooling.

Most "hot rodders" get this wrong.
They have "cold" air bleeding all over the engine, reducing air flow through the radiator. Sounds like you're the exception--connecting (sealing) the airbox to the "scoop".
 

Trlrider

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Thanks for your observations and comments. It keeps ones head thinking, adjusting and confirming what is good and what is bad.

Yeah, that's popular in the racing world, where there's no heater core and the engine is run at heavy throttle/high rpm for long periods.
Pointless on the street.
There's no need to plug the hole in the block if the Vortec heads haven't been drilled to provide bypass flow--the heads themselves block the passage.
If there's no other bypass, that's a reasonable solution. If the engine has a heater core with no shutoff valve, you're just screwing-up a thermostat. The vehicle takes longer to warm-up, and may not achieve proper operating temperature in cold weather. NOT recommended on any vehicle that has some other bypass system--the OEM drillings, a non-regulated heater core, etc.

In our stock car engines we did not use thermostats. Usually a restrictor in place of the t-stat with a certain size hole in it to control the flow of cooling fluid. Wide open is never good. I think ours were usually about a 1/2"! Once of the mathematical whiz kids that use to hang out at the shop did some measuring and calculations with a t-stat and came up with that diameter as equal to flow.

I use to agree with you on the functionality of need of extra bypass/steam vents' until I spent allot of time at a very respected engine shop a couple of decades back. The reduction head temperatures at the rear cylinders where very evident on a dyno and being able to observe with sensors. Most recently my employers '63 Corvette proved the point again. Has a 383 (400 block) in it and local driving just could not keep the temperatures down and bleeding the cooling system was a pain in the tail. We had the intake off to fix a oil leak and change lifters out and I talked him into drilling the steam vents at the rear and we routed them to the front of the intake and drilled two 3/32 holes in the t-stat (note, this car does have a functional heater). This was 3 years ago and the car has not overheated, even on 110 degree Texas days during regular driving and parades.

Was interesting the first time I pulled a LM7 and found they have steam bypasses from the factory even with the reverse flow cooling.



I'm surprised you needed all that custom tuning. I'd have expected that engine to be close enough to stock that the OEM chip would have worked reasonably well in terms of driveability.

Perhaps not for performance, though.

I thought they same thing, that the stock tune would be fine, but it had very little power and would spit, sputter, cough and at times knock. This 5300 pound best just would not go down the road.
Checked everything several times as far as distributor settings, modules, wiring, for vacuum leaks etc. Was not until I changed the timing tables from the stock TBI to the iron head LT1 did it become drive-able, but ran very rich. As of last evening the VE tables are close and at highway cruise reading 17 - 18 mpg according to calculations. On ramp acceleration is near perfect and I don't have to worry about getting run over by special people.
The stock timing tables had 17 - 22 degrees of timing at my highway speeds, the current table is 24 - 30 in the same rpm range. I think there is still work to be done in the mid-range area but that will have to wait until we get back from Nationals the end of the month.
This engine has much better flowing iron heads, longer intake runners, headers (short tube), and a Taylor Helix spacer under the TBI (The Taylor spacer was on the original engine as well). All the sensors in the swap where new GM sensors.
Even changing from the '8625 pcm to the new '7427 using the same chip with the new tuning made a difference in the drivability. Not sure why, as the '8625/'7427 are suppose to be compatible swaps.

Is there ANY actual evidence that the "Ultimate TBI mods" make any improvement? I haven't seen any. I'm VERY skeptical. I think the "Ultimate TBI mods" are a heaping-helping of crap promoted by someone with too much time on their hands, and access to a Dremel. Looks pretty, makes a guy feel like he's "done something", but in the end, it's all cosmetic, not functional. What's being worked on and "smoothed" isn't the restriction.

Recent dyno test on a acquaintances truck without and with the modifications showed a +6 hp and 22ft/lbs torque difference just bolting it on and no other adjustments. After tuning and road test his highway mpg went up 1.5
Changing the fuel pressures and adjusting the tune accordingly also helps, although I have not got there yet. Another project that will be on hold until after Nationals.


EVERY functional OEM application of "hood scoop air" or "Cowl induction" has the throttle-body (carb or FI) sealed to the cold-air intake, with rubber or foam seals. You DO NOT want hood-scoop air flowing into the engine compartment, because it interferes with engine cooling.

Most "hot rodders" get this wrong.
They have "cold" air bleeding all over the engine, reducing air flow through the radiator. Sounds like you're the exception--connecting (sealing) the airbox to the "scoop".

Yes, this air box and scoop will be sealed so any air coming through the scoop will be going to the engine. I have built functional scoop cold air boxes for about 35 years years in street, drag and circle track applications. And the difference between IAT's and underhood temps in on average 30 degrees.
I always have a good chuckle with the lid flip trick or the open element air filters. Lot's of extra suction noise, but more hot air being sucked into the engine.
This air box will also have ducting the the factory location in the fender so if I need to drive the truck on really crappy weather days I can plug the scoops intake to keep the engine from drowning.

Have a great weekend.

Louis
 

PlayingWithTBI

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Trlrider

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I don't know if you've seen this thread from @84Elky (he posted it on gearhead-EFI too). He put together a spreadsheet for tuning SA. Take a look at post #3 where he attached it. Fun to play with, HTH

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/761049-spark-advance-table-example.html#post6301288

Thanks for the link! I had seen it in research but forgot where I had seen it or who had created it it. Back on the list for fine tuning this rig.
As mentioned before, it will be late June before I get back to working on this as the next two weeks are dedicated to getting the kid to the 4-H National Shooting Sports Championships and then watching him compete. Once we get back home the tuning will resume.

Thank You,
Louis
 

Trlrider

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I don't know if you've seen this thread from @84Elky (he posted it on gearhead-EFI too). He put together a spreadsheet for tuning SA. Take a look at post #3 where he attached it. Fun to play with, HTH

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom/761049-spark-advance-table-example.html#post6301288

Thanks for the link! I had seen it in research but forgot where I had seen it or who had created it it. Back on the list for fine tuning this rig.
As mentioned before, it will be late June before I get back to working on this as the next two weeks are dedicated to getting the kid to the 4-H National Shooting Sports Championships and then watching him compete. Once we get back home the tuning will resume.

Thank You,
Louis
What kind of shooting, shotgun *****, Trap, Sporting Clays, 5 Stand, or Rifle/Pistol target?
I

My son is in Texas 4-H Shooting Sports. This year he is on the smallbore pistol team. We will be leaving for Nebraska next Saturday.

Today we are at a match in Caldwell, TX with the rest of his State team members.

We also shoot smallbore rifle, air rifle and air pistol, and Muzzleloading Rifle

Outside of 4-H we shoot PRSRimfire l, NRL22, and several different NRA disciplines.

On a good note drove the Sub to the match this morning and it ran very well.
 
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