Ignition switch wiring

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702castillo

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So I’ve been having issues with my truck not starting as I’ve added a new alternator, starter, battery, ground cables, and serpentine belt, but five out of 10 times it doesnt turn over. I will turn the key and all I get is one click no crank but the lights come on the dash and everything turns on just fine no low-voltage so I’m trying to remove the Killswitch right now as I think that’s the issue but I can’t find any forms online as to where these wires originally replaced. Any help would be appreciated!
 

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702castillo

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So I’ve been having issues with my truck not starting as I’ve added a new alternator, starter, battery, ground cables, and serpentine belt, but five out of 10 times it doesnt turn over. I will turn the key and all I get is one click no crank but the lights come on the dash and everything turns on just fine no low-voltage so I’m trying to remove the Killswitch right now as I think that’s the issue but I can’t find any forms online as to where these wires originally replaced. Any help would be appreciated!
So I traced the yellow wire back to the ignition switch, and the blue wire goes up to a connection with the yellow the yellow remains the same but the blue turns purple which I believe goes down to my starter. My question is do both of these wires go into the ignition switch originally?
 

702castillo

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So I want to assume their purple wire that turns into the blue wire would go into one of these units? The purple wire originally goes down to the starter. As for the yellow wire if it’s already coming from one of those units I’m not too sure where that one goes.
 

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df2x4

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Have you checked the factory service manual for your year? You can download them here for free. The wiring diagrams and pinouts are usually pretty complete and helpful.

https://www.gmt400.com/threads/88-98-service-manuals.43575/

If you don't see the year you need in the original post, keep scrolling. Other members have added more years in later posts.
 

GoToGuy

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So we can't see you. We can't see your truck. You have to give = year, make, model, eng, trans. They all look the same twenty away. But open the doors and hood there all different.
What kill switch?
 

Road Trip

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So I want to assume their purple wire that turns into the blue wire would go into one of these units? The purple wire originally goes down to the starter. As for the yellow wire if it’s already coming from one of those units I’m not too sure where that one goes.

I concur with df2x4 that the factory service manual for your year truck is your best bet.

Have you checked the factory service manual for your year? You can download them here for free. The wiring diagrams and pinouts are usually pretty complete and helpful.

https://www.gmt400.com/threads/88-98-service-manuals.43575/

If you don't see the year you need in the original post, keep scrolling. Other members have added more years in later posts.

By the way, I found this thread after reading the one where you posted to another thread that described a similar issue.

I marked up one of the schematics to give you an idea of what to look for while troubleshooting
over here: (Clutch Position Switch)

Hope this helps!
 
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Erik the Awful

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I will turn the key and all I get is one click no crank but the lights come on the dash and everything turns on just fine
Check your battery terminals and the connections at both ends of your battery cables. Make sure they're all clean and tight. You have enough connection to get "full voltage", but the click and no start tells me you don't have enough connectivity to carry the current your starter requires.
 

Road Trip

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Check your battery terminals and the connections at both ends of your battery cables. Make sure they're all clean and tight. You have enough connection to get "full voltage", but the click and no start tells me you don't have enough connectivity to carry the current your starter requires.

Agreed that a weak high current (150+ amp) circuit is usually the one where the driver hears a click & then nothing.
And for the reason you stated. The only reasons I went on to describe the control circuit is because the OP
posted this back a few weeks ago: ("Starter Purple Wire") Same vehicle? Different vehicle? I don't know.

FWIW I've seen both the control & main power circuits cause the starter solenoid to malfunction.

****

702castillo, knowing where the single click is occurring would help our remote troubleshooting efforts. Is the
click coming from the starter relay (in the underhood fuse block) OR is the click coming from the starter
solenoid on the starter itself?

1) As Erik shared, the *majority* of the time these symptoms are from the high-current/high power circuit
having a marginal connection that won't support the 150+ amp current flow required to turn your engine over.

2) But if that high power start circuit has been verified to be in perfect condition (all positive & ground connections)
then it's also possible that the control circuit is too weak to make the starter solenoid travel (kick) far enough to
get the big starter contacts made > engine starts turning.

Starter solenoid theory for troubleshooting purposes:

1) Referring to the start circuit schematic linked to in Post #6 above, the "3 PPL" wire between the Starter Relay
and the Starter Solenoid translates to a '12 gauge purple' wire. (See attached conversion table.) And the other
side of the starter relay is fed by a red 12-gauge wire from the 40 Amp Fuse 6 at the top of the page.

In other words, even the starter solenoid itself requires a healthy amount of current in order to work properly. (!)

There is a spring-loaded mechanical reason why this is so. The starter solenoid has a 2-step operation. Step #1 is to
first throw (a non-spinning) gear approximately 1" from the at-rest/out-of-the-way position to full
engagement with the matching teeth ringing the outside of the flywheel/flexplate.

Step #2: Once the teeth are fully meshed, the large power contact between the positive battery cable and the starter
motor is now also made, and the starter gear starts to spin furiously. And if the control circuit has enough
amperage for the starter solenoid to overcome the mechanical spring in the bendix trying to keep the starter
gear in the home position, then everything works. (15 amps? 20+ amps? It's a fair amount, but only for the
duration of cranking/few seconds at a time.)

But, if for whatever reason the control circuit is only good for a handful of amps, then this is when you get a
click at the starter...but since there isn't enough current to fully overcome the bendix spring, the travel stalls
out partway through the travel, so the 150+ amp connection at the end of the travel is never made.
CLICK, but no CRANK.

The OP has at least 2 threads now concerning no crank problem, plus a bad purple wire connection that may
or may not be related? From reading them all, I get the feeling that he has replaced pretty much everything
in the high current side already. He also posted a couple of pics showing some PO hackery having to do with
the yellow wire between the start position on the ignition switch and Fuse 8 in the IP Fuse Block?

Not trying to overcomplicate things, but if the high current side is all set, then I just wanted to outline the
control circuit path he needs to focus on.

****

702castillo, let's try to focus the conversation into a single thread. It's less confusing, and you will get more
help that way.

And if a moderator could move this from the "Feedback, Help, & Suggestion" forum to the engine section maybe
more contributors will see this & share their experience.
 

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702castillo

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Sorry about that the truck is a 1991 gmc sierra 5.7l with a 5 speed transmission I’m not too sure the specifics on my transmission. Also you are correct I have replaced all the high amp components already. After going through the manual and finding some schematics online i see my blue “purple” wire should be going into the blue connector that plugs into the ignition switch but as you can see in the pictures I had posted my yellow wire is plugged in there and I don’t see a yellow too be in one of the connectors on any diagrams I’ve seen. I can trace the blue wire back and it turns purple and goes down too my starter.I can’t find any information on the yellow wire but I went and looked right now the yellow wire is going straight from the plug-in connector on the ignition switch into the harness, which goes to the brick that he had installed, which has the blue and yellow wire connecting into it, which goes directly to the Killswitch he added. I’m confused because the diagrams say my starter wire should be going into the plug-in for the ignition switch but this yellow wire is plugged in the connection instead of the purple and just goes from the connection directly too the kill switch along with my purple starter wire. Not understanding where too put these wires back too so I can have it back too OEM.


Also sorry about putting this thread in the wrong section I wasn’t sure where too go so I through it in the help and suggestions I’ll keep this all in the same thread moving forward too avoid a mess and keep records better thank you for all the help by the way man I appreciate it!!
 

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Road Trip

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We're good. I'm pretty new myself, and it took me awhile to figure out where I should post stuff in here.

Here we go: 1) I'm going to show you where the yellow wire is in the '91 C/K Wiring Manual, what it does,
and why you couldn't find it elsewhere. 2) Then I'll show YOU where to download it so that we can all
literally be on the same page(s). 3) And then suggest a couple of ways to further troubleshoot your issue.

Page 49 (of 193) in the '91 GM C/K Light Truck Wiring Manual -- Yellow Wire is only used in Manual Transmission equipped vehicles: "To Clutch Start Switch"
You must be registered for see images attach

Note: I added a bit of color coding to the schematic in order to help the reader visualize the electrical path & where the yellow > purple transition occurs.

2) In the other thread I posted a page from the '99 C/K Service Manual. Although the circuit is similar
in functionality, the schematics are organized differently. To minimize confusion, I downloaded the '91
Electrical Wiring manual, found this page, and located the yellow wire in question.

So that we can all be working from the same page(s), you need to follow the link and download the 1991
Factory Service Manuals. (Especially the Wiring Manual.) (Link: Factory Service Manuals)

3) As previously discussed, the 2 primary circuits for the starter are the control and power. You have
renewed the power side, so we need to verify that the entire path for the control circuit is working
as new. Continuity testing can be accomplished with an ohmmeter. (with power off/fuse disconnected)

Alternately, you can perform voltage checks. The circuit is pretty simple: +12V on the Purple wire at the
starter solenoid should give you an authoritative CLICK followed immediately by the engine being
spun over. You can test the path by temporarily jumpering around suspect marginal componentry, one at a time.
(Ignition Switch, Clutch Start Switch, Starter Relay.) Safety is paramount! If you don't understand
where/why/what to jumper & what that will prove, then your best bet is to take it to the local electrical
troubleshooter and let them sort it out. (ie: If you jumper around the clutch safety interlock (position)
switch and then accidentally start the truck in gear, you could be seriously hurt...but you knew that! The point is,
you have to be extra careful/on your game when troubleshooting circuits like this. (!)

I have omitted the Starter Solenoid on the starter itself from the troubleshooting list since you have recently replaced it.
Just remember that if everything else proves to be good, then although highly improbable it's still possible to have a
problem with the new starter. Of course temporarily jumpering +12V to the starter solenoid can prove/disprove
the starter operation -- but first you have the entire control path to verify good. (!)

Last but not least, over here in upstate NY all I can see is the factory Service Manual circuits as designed/drawn.

IF your truck deviates from the original wiring/wiring diagram in any way because of modifications made by the PO
(Previous Owner) ...then it's nearly impossible for a remote troubleshooter to decipher what the undocumented wiring
is trying to accomplish. Or whether it's right or wrong. Or hanging by a single remaining strand of copper.

This is why that when there's an intermittent problem involving modified electrical wiring, your best bet is to remove every
bit of it, and restore the truck back to the original wiring as much as possible.

I'll stop here for now. Let us know what you decide. Given that the starter either spins the motor or it doesn't,
this should be something that you can methodically troubleshoot/fix so that the truck starts every time, not just when it
feels like it. :0)

Best of luck. Happy hunting!
 
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