I did it my way!

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Road Trip

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Also, my kid can't figure out where the dents are just by looking at this door. I'll knock those out tomorrow.

This would be a prime opportunity to show him a few contour maps? (LINK)

And then show him on a piece of paper exactly what vertical order the different
colors on the panel are? And show him how we can feel a very minor dent
with our hands/fingers? I find that when people can both feel the dent while at
the same time seeing the matching outline, then they get it?

Nice work btw!
 

skylark

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This would be a prime opportunity to show him a few contour maps? (LINK)

And then show him on a piece of paper exactly what vertical order the different
colors on the panel are? And show him how we can feel a very minor dent
with our hands/fingers? I find that when people can both feel the dent while at
the same time seeing the matching outline, then they get it?

Nice work btw!
That is exactly what I'm trying to teach him. I do like the topo map idea though! I can't believe how much time I have wrapped up in it so far. Also, how the frick did I use a full quart of epoxy primer on just the rear doors? Granted that was both sides but still...
 

Road Trip

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That is exactly what I'm trying to teach him. I do like the topo map idea though!

We spend our adult lives gathering knowledge in order to master our chosen
skill set. And if everything goes exactly right, then we get to pass all this
along to our offspring, nieces, nephews, and/or the next generation members
who become our virtual extended family members. Congrats on getting
to do the Dad & lad thing. (As a girl dad, I got to to the Dad & lass thing,
equally good. :0)

Anyway, I've found that the secret to training as a mentor is to figure out what
hooks are inside their head so that I can hang my knowledge on those hooks.
For example, there are a few individuals who can learn counterintuitive abstractions
with little or no effort. (Nikola Tesla, Einstein, etc)

On the other hand, the majority of us are 'concrete' learners. You know,
learning about chemistry, not by grinding through complicated formulas...but
instead by making those baking soda & vinegar volcanoes as a kid. :0)

And the more senses that were involved during the learning process the better
the long term retention, for there are simply more paths with which to travel back
to those memories later on. (The rhythmic sound of hand sanding, the unique trill
of the DA on air power, the smell of freshly mixed bondo, feeling that
slight ripple that you can't see for the 1st time, and seeing others
admire your work at the show & shine & feeling that sense of
accomplishment. :)

...but I digress. When I find myself trying to do the Tom Sawyer thing
on someone unfamiliar with body work, I just talk about knocking down
the hilltops & filling in the valleys. They immediately get it.

But if I then just use multiple coats of the same color primer & they
have yet to master the art of feeling for the errors with the palms
of their hands or tips of their fingers then it just builds frustration
for them.

But by alternating primer colors in a pattern (red, black, gray,
repeat as necessary) and showing them how to also read the contour map
while still using the hilltop & valley analogy, they get it. Which is good,
for working blindly on something that takes as long as good bodywork is
like taking a cross country trip in a car that has no windows --
it just seems even longer. And worst of all, sometimes we miss
the destination. You know, looks perfect in uniform gray primer, looks
like I hate this hobby when it's in shiny color coat & my flaws are frozen
in time for all the world to see... :-(

And then, after a full day of working at it & they are starting to see
the progress that they are _s l o w l y_ making, that's when you
explain to them over an ice cream cone that the ultimate is to have,
say, all red primer showing, and then with a single swipe of the block
sander it turns all black, and that is truly straight, they will usually
ponder that for a moment & start laughing out loud -- simply ridonkulous!

And if you can get someone to laugh while learning something new...
that will be remembered forever. (!)

I can't believe how much time I have wrapped up in it so far. Also, how the frick did I use a full quart of epoxy primer on just the rear doors? Granted that was both sides but still...

Time is the Constant & Quality is the Variable = what we normally get, especially from the collision repair joints = work we don't want to live with. Stuff gets sold.

Quality is the Constant & Time is the Variable = what you are doing = work you want to live with. Stuff gets kept. (insert golf clap from the GMT400 gallery here. :0)

A couple of final observations b4 I go. First, the worst way of teaching real people
is to sit 75 of them in a large hall & have someone lecture them using verbal abstractions
and boards filled with equations with no context to help them assimilate the info & then
turn it into a useful skill. (Beyond passing a test.)

At the other end of the spectrum, the best training always has been & always will be
the Craftsman/Apprentice real world, concrete learning method. (!) So why is college
so expensive? And why would anyone with a clue think that people who have learned
a trade from a Craftsman is someone to be looked down upon? I simply don't get that.

Second, the only Equity that *I* believe in? Sweat Equity. And that's why I like
this forum so much. Page after page after page of people taking something beat
down or unreliable and turning it back into a thing of beauty / beast of burden that
earns it's keep.

Good stuff. And please say Hi to your kid for me. Some dude in the finger lakes
region of upstate NY thinks he's pretty cool for working with his dad. (!)
 

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618 Syndicate

You won't...
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best way to find imperfections in a vehicle is to hand wash it. You'll find every single one.


@Road Trip what do you do for a living?
I agree with some of what you say, but I gotta point out that there is no "best" or "worst" way to learn, that's entirely dependent on the learner, the teacher, and the subject...
 

Road Trip

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best way to find imperfections in a vehicle is to hand wash it. You'll find every single one.
So true!

@Road Trip what do you do for a living?
_____________________

Civilian, I worked on computers back when they used to put them into raised floor
computer rooms. And they were made of boards filled with TTL or ECL logic that
were then stuffed into slots on wire wound backplanes. Here's an old 32-bit machine
I used to fix/teach fixin':

What I used to take care of as if it supported the raising of my twin daughters. (It did.) My pride & joys.
You must be registered for see images attach
Great company. Once upon a time was #2 only to Big Blue. After 20 years of opportunity only limited by what I brought to the table, sadly I outlasted the brand.

Entry-level Field Service > Taught entry level Field Service > went into Support > Taught Support > Corporate level support. (ie: Last one in, Fly-n-Fix)

And all that civilian success? Thanks to the troubleshooting that I learned as a
reservist in the USAF Avionics gig, both tech school + The Elders on the flightline back home.
They were truly craftsman at their troubleshooting game. Their white hair & 100-yard stares
made them look like they were from another planet, but once they saw my interest in
learning what they knew, they gave freely. A lesson I never forgot.


Note: Before computers, while attending a local community college in the mornings
for electronics technology, for a couple of years I worked in the afternoons for the
owner of a garage who had a reputation for troubleshooting and repairing the unfixable.

You know, the cars & trucks that stubbornly resisted repair. He believed in cheating
to win, and had invested real money in a Sun 1115 engine analyzer. He hired me
because of word-of-mouth that I was rebuilding carburetors & getting away with it.
:0)

I thought I knew what I was doing, but when he would see something in the parade
of sparks & then explain it to me, it was just too cool. Especially when he would
fix something on the 1st try and then I could see the difference he made on the
same parade of sparks. Wow.

****

As for the military, thanks to a couple of breaks of service, by the end of '97 I
had only accumulated 10 years of service as a weekend warrior. C-130s, F-106,
and the F-16. Always Avionics. (Not by choice, the jet engine shop was always
100-110% manned. :-( Thought I was done.

But then 9/11 happened. And in response I left my day job & returned to the
flightline for a dozen more years, this time full time, fixing/training with an
unrelenting focus that only a day like that can fill you with.

You know, I thought fixing the tough stuff was going to be the pinnacle of my
career. But as I discovered, teaching The Next Generation to replace you is
even more rewarding. Here I am at a Boise TDY with some of my trainees:

Post 9/11 at Boise, ID with F-16 86-288. (158FW Flightline Avionics, The Next Generation)
You must be registered for see images attach

Note: I'm 3rd from the left, +70lbs ago. Had a long stretch where I was the defacto Santa Claus of the flightline.
And all those kids? They were/are so sharp. They bring it. And today most are working the F-35s that
replaced these old gray gals on our flightline.

****

Hey, thanks for asking. Nice to cross paths. And, here in this forum,
my job is to learn from your skills. I have that old chore truck to
make better. And try my very best & leave it alone & use it to work
on other sleeper projects instead of tinkering with the L29 under the hood.
(Famous last words. :0)

Enjoy your toys!
 
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RanchWelder

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We used to call it having been overcome with Frank Senatra Syndrome... "Myyyyyyyyyyy, Waaaaaaaay...... "

Hear it's easier when you plug air into the Ingersol? (I try to avoid using the R word... The Company is my issue, not the famous person...)

In a pinch, manual sanding with it will do, right?

Want one... my bodywork needs the sander but the F-16 looks like a lot more fun.
How fast can you accelerate in a vertical climb, without freezing up the stick in one of them there grocery getter's?

Wouldn't want to feed it... $$$$$$$$$$$$...
My only son is my Cat... sigh...

Really like the Turkey reference in your sig, Road Trip.
Personally it's the frozen chicken canopy/windshield test, which provides the most entertainment to me...

The Blackboard Problem Solved = 42 = (-80538738812075974)^3 + 80435758145817515^3 + 12602123297335631^3

This link proves it:

https://news.mit.edu/2019/answer-life-universe-and-everything-sum-three-cubes-mathematics-0910

Door panel Looks great!
 
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Road Trip

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Let's see, hand sanding this body line until my arms fall off or this. If it works is it wrong?

Skylark, if you ask me the answer is that whatever it takes to actually get
that project across the Finish Line is the exact right answer. (!)

I was pretty sure of this before I watched a few episodes of American
Pickers. Now after seeing the 2 distinct categories of collectors (ie:
buildings full of unorganized, unrealized promise vs. the folks that
have implemented their vision/passion as working, museum-quality
bits of history) ...I have redoubled my efforts to finish all that I've
started before it's time to turn in the keys, settle up the bill, and
check out. :0)

Just to show that I've walked a mile in your moccasins, I've attached
a few photos of some simillar work that I did to my DD a couple of
years ago. Note: Didn't have any air there, so I did it all by hand.

I got it done...but since then I've made use of an air-powered board
sander (almost a twin of yours) on a bigger project, and I discovered
a new-found genuine appreciation for the time saving advantage it
offered.

Kind of like how I now can appreciate a glass of sparkling cold water
taken from Lake Skaneateles so much more than I ever did prior to
spending some quality time over in the sandbox. :0)

NOTE: When you look at the photos, the sides of the car was pretty
decent, but the back of the car was a 15-footer. While most people
only saw a single dent to the left of the handle, under the unbroken
paint there looked to be some signs of a couple of shallow dents
typical of normal wear & tear from the PO?

Of course, once I started working the door and reading the contour
maps I saw that I had a lot more work cut out for me than what
I really expected? Fuuuudge!

Enjoy --
 

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