Need some advice on a 454 vortec top end rebuild

[techweenie]

I recently bought a 98 K3500 with the 454. Overall the truck is in really bad shape but I thought the motor was ok. It just appeared to need a tune up and valve cover gaskets. As it turns out I found coolant mixed with the oil under the driver side valve cover, so I assumed it had a blown head gasket and tore it apart. I didn't see any obvious signs of a bad head gasket, but the intake gasket was definitely leaking internally. The heads have already been worked over in a machine shop and are ready to go back on. It doesn't knock so I'm praying the bottom end is still ok. That is only the beginning of the problems.

Every possible internal part of this engine is severely caked with oil and carbon residue. I bought a 1 gallon dip can of carb cleaner and got the push rods and rockers sparkly clean with a little scrubbing. My budget is non-existent so I started disassembling the lifters and cleaning them. That took 2 days soaking in gasoline, another day soaking in PSC1000, a little soaking in the carb dip, and a lot of persuasion. In the process I found six out of eight on the driver side have rough rollers. They take noticeably more effort to roll and are not smooth at all. Ordering new ones is way more than I wanted to spend to get this thing on the road, and I'm already way over budget.

I'm starting to get very frustrated with this project because every part I take off reveals more and more problems. While trying to get the fuel rail off I managed to break the heater hose fitting clean off the intake manifold. Tried to use an EZ out and what was left of it just crumbled but wouldn't clear out the threads. Took that to a machine shop and waiting to see if they can fix it. Went to replace the FPR and found the housing dented and existing FPR damaged. Still has stock injectors so I have a set of Bosch units waiting to go on. I couldn't separate the exhaust manifolds from the y-pipe so I had to undo the first exhaust joint and rip the whole assembly out the bottom of the truck. Try doing that with the truck on the ground and a seized EGR tube. Took that mess to a muffler shop and had the manifold studs replaced and O2 sensors backed out, one of which ripped some threads but was fixable. Since the trans support crossmember had to come out I went ahead and had it powdercoated. None of the exhaust hardware could be salvaged. It took me two days just to find replacement manifold to head studs! While under the truck I pulled the front prop shaft only to find the slip joint completely seized and one of the u-joints had crumbled to dust. Also found a few leaking drivetrain seals, torn CV boot, and ALL of the steering linkage joints literally wobble. So now the truck has been in the middle of my driveway for about a month with exposed cylinders and fewer and fewer parts still attached. Weather and work have not been cooperating either.

All I need is for this thing to run and drive reliably for maybe two years. After that it's getting a solid front axle and will become a mud truck. It's got all the potential, but finding it is not easy right now. Given the current situation with the lifters and knowing the stock cam sucks, coupled with the ultimate goal of slinging mud, what do you guys think I should do? I can't afford to spend money on stuff that would be nice to have, but I also can't afford to do things twice. Should I pull the bottom end and tear it down (it has over 200k miles)? Is there a cheap place to buy good lifters? I'm really just overwhelmed right now and need some opinions.

 

[IOWNJUNK]

Roller lifters are dirt cheap in the junk yard all day long.

With all the time and effort you have put into the motor I think you should drop the pan and clean that up too, you said everything you removed was caked with sludge, I'm willing to bet your oil pickup is buried in it. Oil pumps are cheap.

 

[woody31]

based on the information,,i would part it out and start over,,

 

[454ss]

before you just slap new lifters in it be sure to look at the cam lobes to see if they are abnormally worn, is there any scaling or pitting on the lifter rollers? early cams had issues with soft cores and were prone to failure but that should of been addressed by 98. maybe it has been replaced in the past already but be sure to look at the distributor gear, with 200k on an original id bet the farm that the teeth are worn to a thin knife edge. 200k is getting to the end of the line for a original timing chain also.

 

[michael hurd]

It might be hard to accept, but with that information, I would say get rid of it, it's obvious the PO did nothing to maintain the vehicle, other issues will creep up. Also, with a budget that is non-existant, I would forget the idea of a big block for a DD.

Chances are more than likely the bearings are toast in the bottom end. Before installing the heads and getting it running, I would drop the pan, and pull a few bearing caps.

 

[454ss]

unless you are prepared for a full rebuild, if it wasn't knocking and had good oil pressure before you took it apart, I would not disturb the rod or main caps until you have the funds for more parts. by the sounds of it the bottom may look like the top end but id just clean the pan out and replace the pump and pick up. ive seen rods and mains go after they were "checked", the same ones that were checked, coincidence? after that many miles of being worn in, let sleeping dogs lie until they bark. assuming you get it back together, fill it with a high detergent oil and good filter, then change it after 2 or 3 heat cycles. poking around in there is bound to loosen some crap that will dislodge. then id change it again at 500 miles and see if its still coming out nasty, repeat as necessary and look for glitter in the oil.

 

[techweenie]

unless you are prepared for a full rebuild, if it wasn't knocking and had good oil pressure before you took it apart, I would not disturb the rod or main caps until you have the funds for more parts. by the sounds of it the bottom may look like the top end but id just clean the pan out and replace the pump and pick up. ive seen rods and mains go after they were "checked", the same ones that were checked, coincidence? after that many miles of being worn in, let sleeping dogs lie until they bark. assuming you get it back together, fill it with a high detergent oil and good filter, then change it after 2 or 3 heat cycles. poking around in there is bound to loosen some crap that will dislodge. then id change it again at 500 miles and see if its still coming out nasty, repeat as necessary and look for glitter in the oil.

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to. I made a mistake buying this truck, but it is what it is and I'm not prepared to walk away from it. The frame and cab are solid, and it's never been off road despite having a 3 inch body lift and oversize tires. It was just never maintained, which I'm ok with. I just didn't realize the full extent of how neglected it was. At the time of purchase there was snow on the roads and it was very difficult to get a thorough analysis during the test drive. I power braked it to check for any unusual sounds and there were none. It's not my daily driver, and even with the work I've got into it, it's still cheaper than any other 3500 in this area. As I mentioned, it's a toy, but I do need to get some practical use out of it for a while.

I decided I'm going to order new lifters and start putting it back together. All the other parts and pieces I need have already been sourced and acquired to get it running. The bottom end is still in the truck, so I'm not gonna touch the oil pan. It had good oil pressure so I think I'll be ok there. None of the cylinder walls have a ridge. That surprised me because I once took apart a 4.3 V6 and there was considerable wear in that one. I also looked at the distributor gear and it is definitely worn, but not razor thin. I think it'll last until more money is available. Hopefully the timing chain will last until I get a new cam for it. I read somewhere about stock lifters having bleed down problems with an aftermarket cam. Do you guys think I should get something different? I'm not afraid to spend more money now if it's gonna save me down the road. It certainly wasn't in the budget, but I'll survive. The heads and rockers look great and I got them prepped to go back on today. I want to get them bolted down tomorrow because I'll be out of town for 5 days and I don't like the cylinders being exposed.

There's still a lot of work coming for this truck and I'll eventually start a thread in the off road section so you guys can follow it.

 

[454ss]

most parts stores should have the gear in stock for just a few bucks. the cam looks good?

 

[techweenie]

I didn't get a chance to look at the cam in detail yet, but the old lifters were not pitted or anything. The wear patterns looked normal. I suspect the intake gasket had been leaking long enough to start affecting the needle bearings in them. I've never cleaned or installed lifters before so I honestly don't know what's considered normal. All I know for certain is some roll a lot easier than others. I've seen videos and pictures of worn cam lobes so I have an idea what I'm looking for there.

 

[techweenie]

Well there were a couple more setbacks today. I'm missing one of the cylinder head dowel pins, so I stuck a magnet down the water jacket in the block to see if it fell in there. What I found was chocolate pudding. The previous owner said it had a new radiator, now I know why. It was also flushed and refilled with green coolant. After an hour of running the hose through the side of the block and dipping a magnet in I still don't have all the sludge out, plus my driveway is dark brown. I'm at the point now I think the whole engine needs to come out so I can get it thoroughly cleaned and inspected. There's a very good performance shop nearby and I'm gonna take it to them for the bottom end rebuild. I need to know it's gonna run strong and I don't have any experience with that part of an engine. At least the camshaft looks good.