Low Cost Camshaft Options - Need Opinions

[Majoraslayer]

After coming across this thread,no offense so don't take it as such, but normally after you list all the parts, labor, etc. adding 30% to the budget for unknowns/incidentals lands you pretty close to actual costs. In your other thread you're completely out of money and still hunting parts in this one. No money to fix the block you're stuffing all these new high dollar parts in or on..

This is an older thread, per my previous response I already HAVE these parts. I'm revisiting it for advice while installing them.

 

[Hipster]

This is probably going to be a dumb question, but I want to make sure I'm understanding just in case. I got my Summit 8800 camshaft in the block, test fit my thrust retainer plate, and noticed the step on the nose isn't sticking out the front of the block far enough to ride on the lip of the plate. Am I correct in how I'm looking at it, that when the timing gear is bolted onto the front of the camshaft it should "pull" the camshaft forward just a bit where the step nose will ride on the thrust plate lip?

Also, I was going to reuse the thrust plate mounting bolts from my LT1 block, but they seem to be too long. Can someone confirm if these bolts are different between Gen IV blocks and a TBI block? If so, what size (or part number) should I be on the lookout for?

Retainer plate usually sandwiches the cam in place for fore/aft movement, on blocks previously non-roller, sans retainer plate, I have seen wear on the block face from a timing gear, all you can do it bolt the retainer on, slide the cam forward, and see if it sits properly or assess if there would be excessive endplay with everything bolted together..where the retainers bolt on is normally outside of any block wear issues. Also, no offense, I'm kind of in the "You have another looming issue" mindset. You;re asking a question only a person with the actual parts in front of them cam address.

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

When I upgraded to a roller cam with the same nose, I bought this timing set. The inside of the sprocket has a thrust bearing which rides on the plate. If you measure the nose, it should be longer than the plate is thick. FWIU when running the cam is pushed back away from it by turning the distributor gear.

Trick Flow Specialties TFS-31478550 Trick Flow® Billet Steel Timing Sets | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Trick Flow® Billet Steel Timing Sets with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Timing Chain and Gear Sets at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Hipster]

When I upgraded to a roller cam with the same nose, I bought this timing set. The inside of the sprocket has a thrust bearing which rides on the plate. If you measure the nose, it should be longer than the plate is thick. FWIU when running the cam is pushed back away from it by turning the distributor gear.

Trick Flow Specialties TFS-31478550 Trick Flow® Billet Steel Timing Sets | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Trick Flow® Billet Steel Timing Sets with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Timing Chain and Gear Sets at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

yes, cam sets can be had clearanced for thrust bearings these days, before that we used to have cam gears clearanced/machined for them and use the ever problematic thrust buttons. Comp has had cam thrust bearings on the list for decades, mopar parts always late to the show but the bearings were a catolog number.

 

[Hipster]

Slowly working into not enough money to fix it right, but there's always enough money to do it a second time

 

[Schurkey]

Mark IV BBC is essentially the same set-up as Gen 6 BBC, or an OEM roller-cam SBC when a step-nose cam is involved. The small-blocks use different parts, but the concept is identical.

I could not be bothered to put a needle-roller bearing on the cam gear. The thrust plate is hardened steel, the chances of it wearing out are less than the chances of a bunch of needle rollers coming apart and falling into the oil pan.

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.0025 end play is Not Very Damned Much. And yet, it's perfectly adequate.

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The water pump drive tang is a marine item, for a cam-driven neoprene-vane water pump.

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[Hipster]

Mark IV is essentially the same set-up as Gen 6 when a step-nose cam is involved.

I could not be bothered to put a needle-roller bearing on the cam gear. The thrust plate is hardened steel, the chances of it wearing out are less than the chances of a bunch of needle rollers coming apart and falling into the oil pan.

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The water pump drive tang is a marine item, for a cam-driven neoprene-vane water pump.

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I hear that too. Early days, a lot less known about the materials we were using or chalk it up to ignorance about the materials that were being used. Much more conversions to roller cams and questionable, even homemade, retainer plates way back.

 

[Majoraslayer]

I don't think I phrased my question well, but I believe Hipster did answer it. To elaborate, when pushing the camshaft all the way in by hand during a fresh install, then test fitting the thrust plate, the nose of the camshaft doesn't "poke out" into the thrust plate, meaning it can move in and out behind it with no timing gear attached. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but my question was to make sure when the timing gear is mounted on the camshaft, it pulls it forward up against the thrust plate so that the thrust plate is sandwiched between the "step" of the camshaft nose and the timing gear itself, hence locking it to the thrust plate to keep it from moving in and out. I wasn't sure if it was normal that the camshaft when first pushed into place, all the way into the block, would be able to travel far enough back that it wouldn't meet the thrust plate without pulling it forward a bit.

As for the timing set itself, I bought the timing set below at the time I ordered my camshaft. According to the product questions, it is designed for roller blocks, so I did plan ahead to swap the timing set at the same time as the cam swap.

Summit Racing SUM-G6601R-9 Summit Racing™ True Roller Timing Sets | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Summit Racing™ True Roller Timing Sets with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Timing Chain and Gear Sets at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[KansasOBS]

I don't think I phrased my question well, but I believe Hipster did answer it. To elaborate, when pushing the camshaft all the way in by hand during a fresh install, then test fitting the thrust plate, the nose of the camshaft doesn't "poke out" into the thrust plate, meaning it can move in and out behind it with no timing gear attached.

The block just has a soft plug in the back, its not made to set the depth, only plug the hole. So yeah normal, you do not want the cam riding against it.

 

[Hipster]

I don't think I phrased my question well, but I believe Hipster did answer it. To elaborate, when pushing the camshaft all the way in by hand during a fresh install, then test fitting the thrust plate, the nose of the camshaft doesn't "poke out" into the thrust plate, meaning it can move in and out behind it with no timing gear attached. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but my question was to make sure when the timing gear is mounted on the camshaft, it pulls it forward up against the thrust plate so that the thrust plate is sandwiched between the "step" of the camshaft nose and the timing gear itself, hence locking it to the thrust plate to keep it from moving in and out. I wasn't sure if it was normal that the camshaft when first pushed into place, all the way into the block, would be able to travel far enough back that it wouldn't meet the thrust plate without pulling it forward a bit.

As for the timing set itself, I bought the timing set below at the time I ordered my camshaft. According to the product questions, it is designed for roller blocks, so I did plan ahead to swap the timing set at the same time as the cam swap.

Summit Racing SUM-G6601R-9 Summit Racing™ True Roller Timing Sets | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Summit Racing™ True Roller Timing Sets with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Timing Chain and Gear Sets at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

The thrust plate keeps it where it needs to be , the step on the cam nose needs to accomodate the thickness of the retainer plate and that's pretty much it. I have seen non-roller blocks with so much wear that the cam actually scores the rear block plug, but even converting one to roller, the retainer sits outside the wear area. so 99% of the time it's all good and the cam is exactly where it needs to be fore/aft position. Didn't want to make it overly confusing. With the cam retainer bolted on and the cam slid all the way towards the front the nose should protrude just past the the retainer plate, bolt on cam gear, check fore/aft endplay. Offhand don't know what the min/max numbers are. Schurkey exemplified a few thousandth's of an inch and that's all that's needed. If bolting on the cam gear results in binding there's an issue at play. With the cam in and gear installed, sans valetrain components, it should turn by hand with no more resistance than what ever oil or assembly lube is in place and something I normally check before I do crank sprocket and chain.Feel for tight spots same as with a crank install.