4l60e TQ and HP Question

[PlayingWithTBI]

Ahh, so it's not 1 piece. It's 1 piece plus shims to dial it in.

And between the pinion depth, backlash, and preload, you can get a decent pattern - simple well not really, it takes time because each one affects the other.

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[Erik the Awful]

I thought you left the crush sleeve out until pinion depth was correct thought?

You have to install both bearings to check the contact pattern. If you don't have enough shims, your pinion will be too far forward and you'll crush the sleeve down too small. Then your read your pattern and realize you need another crush sleeve. Of course you could just start out with all the shims and work your way down, but the shims on the sides of the carrier also affect the contact pattern. If you start out with a solid shim kit instead of a crush sleeve, you can play with the shims to your heart's desire. Setting up a pumpkin is a labor-intensive pain in the butt if you're a first-timer doing it yourself. I think I had mine together and apart about thirty times before I finally got it right.

 

[97c1500ext]

A retired mechanic who I've used for rear-ends (he lives in Saginaw, MI) always gets his parts from Drive Train Specialists in Detroit ("DTS", https://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/about-us). For him, it's a 45min drive to DTS or a one-day ground shipment.

He claims their bearing sets are OE quality.

Bearing quality has been a recurring topic on GMT400.

YMMV, I'm just repeating what he told me. I literally drove to DTS from his house and picked up the parts he needed.

How about Timken? I've seen them suggested a few times and i believe they are made in USA.

 

[Supercharged111]

How about Timken? I've seen them suggested a few times and i believe they are made in USA.

They were, not sure about now.

 

[Aidan Kesler]

What is your final drive ratio?

Ask your builder as to whether he included the following:

- Transgo HD2 kit or equivalent (can include his own mods to more or less replicate what the HD2 kit does and then some)
- Sonnax 4L60E-LB1 boost valve and spring kit
- Sonnax Smart shell
- High Energy clutches throughout the transmission, except for possibly the 3-4 clutch where he may have used Alto Reds, Raybestos Blues or similar along with Kolene coated or lindered flat steels
- Alto Power Pack for the 3-4 clutch (clearance .025-.035, load release springs installed)
- High Rate Return Springs
- Wide 2-4 Band (Alto)
- 2003+ rollerized reaction shaft
- 4L65E Front and rear 5-pinion plantaries (note that these are not mandatory for anything under 500HP)
- All new OEM or Rostra solenoids/harness

Check out my 4L60E Playlist for a comprehensive look at building a high performance 4L60E

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i didnt ask whether he included those parts because I can only text him currently.. but I did ask how much it can reliably handle up to HP and TQ wise, he said 450-500. He’s a close friend, I trust him. My main concern now, is how to match my engine build, cam specs and application of my truck (daily driver, 33’s, 4x4, will tow some, truck stuff lol) with my rear end gears, the 4l60e’s gear ratios etc etc, for the best experience possible, and longevity.

Currently the truck has 3.73 gears and the cam I plan to be using is Comp X4270h-11 with 226/234 at 0.050” … 111 LSA, and .480 in. 498 ex. lift. It’s carbed so I’m using a Holley 750cfm vaccum secondary, heads are promaxx 2172 with 185cc intake runners, 64cc com. Chambers, flat top pistons +7 cc. Hovering at 10.3:1 static comp. Ratio, and 8.3:1 dynamic CR.

 

[NickTransmissions]

My main concern now, is how to match my engine build, cam specs and application of my truck (daily driver, 33’s, 4x4, will tow some, truck stuff lol) with my rear end gears, the 4l60e’s gear ratios etc etc, for the best experience possible, and longevity.

Two words to consider for driver experience : Converter stall.
Contact your cam manufacturer for a recommendation on stall speed given your overall set up as captured above. With a 226/234 lift and gears, you prob are looking at somewhere between 2800-3300+. You have a fairly big cam for a truck so prob making peak power over 6000 RPM and peak torque in the high 3s to low 4s (guessing).

One word to consider for longevity: Heat
Now your concern is mitigating all that extra heat the higher stall TC will generate over stock so ensure you beef up your transmission cooling and capacity (B&M deep pan will be essentially mandatory) plus the biggest aftermarket trans cooler you can stuff into the truck.

Sounds like it will be a nice engine and trans when all is said and done.

 

[Aidan Kesler]

Two words to consider for driver experience : Converter stall.
Contact your cam manufacturer for a recommendation on stall speed given your overall set up as captured above. With a 226/234 lift and gears, you prob are looking at somewhere between 2800-3300+. You have a fairly big cam for a truck so prob making peak power over 6000 RPM and peak torque in the high 3s to low 4s (guessing).

One word to consider for longevity: Heat
Now your concern is mitigating all that extra heat the higher stall TC will generate over stock so ensure you beef up your transmission cooling and capacity (B&M deep pan will be essentially mandatory) plus the biggest aftermarket trans cooler you can stuff into the truck.

Sounds like it will be a nice engine and trans when all is said and done.

Not sure how accurate calculators are online, but with this exact setup, I got a 93 octane pump gas, peak HP at 379hp 5000rpm and peak torque at 3800 around 420 lb/ft, according to online calc. I called comp and summit to ensure all things are compatible, they suggested a 2200+ stall converter and 4.10 gears. How hard is the trans deep pan you mentioned to install alone? And can I do the cooler alone as well?

 

[NickTransmissions]

Not sure how accurate calculators are online, but with this exact setup, I got a 93 octane pump gas, peak HP at 379hp 5000rpm and peak torque at 3800 around 420 lb/ft, according to online calc. I called comp and summit to ensure all things are compatible, they suggested a 2200+ stall converter and 4.10 gears. How hard is the trans deep pan you mentioned to install alone? And can I do the cooler alone as well?

What do you mean by 'alone'? Are you referring to installing them separately on different days?

Also, 'hard' is a relative term...For me, both jobs are remedial but if you've not done it before, it may take a little longer for you to complete...The deep pan will come with instructions as well as a filter pick up extension so you just need to follow the directions provided by B&M and you'll be fine...Cooler install will depend on where you're putting it and what all is involved (i.e. if you go with one that comes with electric cooling fans, that will be a more complex install than one without such fans).

2200 stall seems a little tight for that cam but it would keep temperatures down at the expense of some torque multiplication left on the table prior to full fluid coupling...

 

[Aidan Kesler]

What do you mean by 'alone'? Are you referring to installing them separately on different days?

Also, 'hard' is a relative term...For me, both jobs are remedial but if you've not done it before, it may take a little longer for you to complete...The deep pan will come with instructions as well as a filter pick up extension so you just need to follow the directions provided by B&M and you'll be fine...Cooler install will depend on where you're putting it and what all is involved (i.e. if you go with one that comes with electric cooling fans, that will be a more complex install than one without such fans).

2200 stall seems a little tight for that cam but it would keep temperatures down at the expense of some torque multiplication left on the table prior to full fluid coupling...

I’m well inclined to hands on work. By hard, I mean, is it objectively a more time consuming and difficult task than the average Saturday job.

By alone, I mean is it achievable by myself or would it be considerably easier with another’s help or is it best having someone else do it.

Also… you may have to explain to me the science behind why a 2200 is tight and what all that torque multiplication and full fluid coupling means lol forgive me for my ignorance hahaha

 

[NickTransmissions]

I’m well inclined to hands on work. By hard, I mean, is it objectively a more time consuming and difficult task than the average Saturday job.

By alone, I mean is it achievable by myself or would it be considerably easier with another’s help or is it best having someone else do it.

Also… you may have to explain to me the science behind why a 2200 is tight and what all that torque multiplication and full fluid coupling means lol forgive me for my ignorance hahaha

The below video is a look at the B&M Pan installation - skip to 1:31:11...It shows my TH475 but the 4L60E version would be identical, process-wise. Check out similar videos for cooler installations on Youtube...Between my B&M pan segment and what is available out there, you should be able to answer the above questions for yourself. There's no way I or anyone else can since I/we would have to know what you consider an average Saturday afternoon job (one of my average such jobs is rebuilding a transmission or engine, which may be different than yours) and whether you think you can tackle those jobs by yourself (I don't see any reason why you couldn't unless you had some physical limitations but only you could know that information).

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I'll address the torque converter explanation in a separate post but will quote or mention you so you know I replied with it. It will be either later or tomorrow as I'm getting ready to finish up a transmission (taking my afternoon break atm).