400 ci, 6.6L vortec, Can/has it been done?

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WTwarrior

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Ok, so im looking to beef up my 350 powered 99 3500. Ive been reading that the vortec heads can be placed on any small block and i have a 400 at my disposal. So can it be done, has it been done? I really dont see why not if my factory FI intake will bolt to the heads, the crank sensor mounts in the timing cover, which to my knowledge is nearly the same (96+ have 2 less bolts if I'm right), the reluctor should mount to the crank no problems, crank sensor is in the dizzy, i do believe the dizzy gear on the cam is different from TBI up opposed to carbed engines, no big deal to swap gears. Am i missing anything? Is my factory black box tune going to run this properly? Can i use 96+ pushrods, lifters(i believe theyre both hydraulic flat tappet cams except 96 models i read somewhere theyre a full roller engine but went.back to flat tappet in 97).

Gentleman, can this be done? I cannot find any that have been done and i wouldnt mind having a 6.6L vortec
 

michael hurd

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You could physically bolt the heads to pretty much any of the small block engine family. Whether it is good and prudent to do so, that is your choice. Considerations in bore size vs chamber size need to be made.

First, the factory injection system is 'adequate'. If you begin making more power, especially with a large increase in displacement and volumetric efficiency you will find you are dangerously lean. ( increased cubic inches, headers, intake spacer, larger than stock roller cam, low restriction exhaust ) Too lean and you will melt a piston, or have an exhaust valve failure.

The injectors are small pencil style poppets from new, GM has a kit to change these out for a different spider with integrated injectors.

The factory two piece intake and bulky spider inside pose obstacles to making good power. There are manifold spacers available which raise the upper intake manifold and increase the flow around the spider. Or, you can search out the elusive marine vortec injection intakes which have external injectors, and this allows you more flexibility in tuning for the correct # per hour injectors based on the power you are going to attempt to make. Marine intake has no provision for EGR built in.

There is a supplier of higher flow Vortec injector spiders for the OEM truck intake, Wynjammer. They sell them in addition to their supercharger kits.

http://www.wynjammer.com/Vortec_Fuel_Injection_System.html

96-2002 GM 5.7 CP-10722-36-8 36lb $699.00
96-2002 GM 5.7 CP-10722-48-8 48lb $799.00
96-2002 GM 5.7 CP-10722-62-8 62lb $899.00


To use vortecs on a 400, you will need to drill steam holes, or have it done, and then use the correct gaskets. The 400 block has no provisions for a roller camshaft, like the 350 in the truck currently. Yes, you can put a roller camshaft in the 400, you need to machine the block for a cam retention plate and use longer, heavier lifters for retro-fit hydraulic roller cams, measure the pushrod length, and order pushrods. Must use a compatible distributor gear, or tear up the engine when it sends filings through the engine. Must check camshaft to connecting rod clearance.

The cylinder heads will need work in order to use pretty much any larger lift camshaft other than the stock roller out of the 350. You can drop in an aftermarket set of springs, retainers and locks from some websites ( Alex's Parts ) to allow for more lift on the stock Vortec heads. You may have to shim the springs to get the correct installed height. To do this, you will need to buy or borrow a valve spring height micrometer.

Some spring packages will require you to machine the spring pocket, and machine the guide O.D. down for a positive type teflon seal.

Going for much more lift and adding higher ratio rocker arms to the Vortec heads will require you to check the pushrod for interference in the hole it passes through the cylinder head. You may need to drill these out with a 1/2" drill bit.

To get good quench, you will have to deck the block, and run dished pistons to get a streetable compression ratio with the larger displacement.

Bottom line - you could easily put ~ $1000 + into the bottom end of the 400 with hot tank, bore, hone, pistons, resize rods, etc, etc, you can spend ~$ 1000 on a good roller cam kit, wynjammer spider ~$700 -900, exhaust system and headers $ 500, pcm dyno tuning in person ~ $400 +, and on and on.

The good news, is that your engine, if it was the factory engine and no one has changed it, or performed unauthorized repairs, should have Inconel valve seats, instead of induction hardened seats instead of the 1/2 ton L31 cylinder heads. They handle more heat for extended periods than the regular ones 1/2 ton versions got. You also have a better ( not fantastic, but better ) exhaust system than the 1/2 tons get ( larger Y pipe, bigger converters, etc )

To set the distributor base timing correctly, you need a tech2 scanner. Something your GM dealer would have... or maybe someone in the automotive business. Snap-off... Mac, etc is not capable of doing this.

If you change the position of either the crank position sensor or the distributor ( from installing, etc ) you will have to do a CASE relearn on your '99 truck. ( Crank Angle Sensor Error )

Changing out the PCM? You will need to do a CASE relearn as well. Might also want to turn off the factory security measures in the tuning. Unsure what other scan tool devices can command this, but a tech2 will.

My suggestion? Sell the 400 to a circle track racer who wants to make a 377 ( 350 crank in 400 block with main bearing spacers ) and move those funds into other upgrades.

Factory programming in the PCM is well... mild, to put it in a nice way. Tuning, exhaust ( at least better flowing mufflers and tail pipes ) will go a long way to making it feel a bit more stout. Not sure if it is a K series or not, but deeper gearing will also help. Lighter wheels ( stock steel are ~ 40 lbs each ! ) and tires can also help.
 

michael hurd

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A much better proposition is to swap in a newer LS engine. The engines are readily available in either the junkyard or new, inexpensive and feature technologies and improvements in materials and engineering to make good power.

Warren Johnson was asked for input ( the professor of pro-stock ) in the LS engine family, and the result is a cross bolted engine block that is stout enough to withstand 1000 hp in stock form, out of the box. Better cooling around the valves, better cooling around the cylinder barrels, better flowing cylinder heads. ( by a large margin ) Lighter valves ( smaller stems ) and beehive springs make these engines rev happy and reliable.

Older small blocks, if you were aiming for much over the 450-500 hp range, you had best be using a bowtie high nickel race block if you wanted any reliability or longevity. Yes, I have read plenty an article where people turbocharged stock 350 engines and made 1000+ hp. Whether that was a wise decision or not, I am sure they found out in the end. ;)
 

1994chevymanual

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if i were you i would do a 383 little easier to keep cool or do a 6.0 swap you can get 370-380 hp out of that with some bolt on s and a good tune
 

WTwarrior

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It does seem a little counter productive to not go with a LS based engine, i wont eliminate it as an option. Call me foolish but i really want to make a 6.6L vortec, i cant see that its been done but maybe theres a reason for it.
arent the old 400's known to be torque monsters?
As for the pcm swap id just do the 411 swap so it can be tuned via efi live and for thw fueling i was consodering either the marine setup or something like the weiand stealth ram so i could have external, interchangable injectors(free up intake flow and have the ability to run larger injectors)

If it comes down to being a total money pit after i get a parts list down i may just swap a LS in it, i want to keep it gas but i want more hauling power, bottom line
 

michael hurd

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It does seem a little counter productive to not go with a LS based engine, i wont eliminate it as an option. Call me foolish but i really want to make a 6.6L vortec, i cant see that its been done but maybe theres a reason for it.
arent the old 400's known to be torque monsters?


Yep, you are probably correct. Anecdotal evidence though. They would have been lively in the day, the same way a Model T was 'thrilling' compared to driving a horse and buggy.

If you really want to proclaim a 6.6 L vortec... buy some stickers if it makes you happy. Trying to rationale spending thousands to upgrade a basically obsolete product is kind of insane, especially to a newer obsolete product.

Their short connecting rods coupled with high angular loading on the cylinder walls, and a relatively soft ( low nickel casting ) adds up to a lot of wear metals in the oil and short lifespan, with subsequent loss of cylinder sealing.
 

shovelbill

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aside from the uniqueness of a 6.6 Vortec(which is cool and very personal), what are the primary reasons your upgrading......torque and pulling power?

do you tow, slide in camper?
 

TylerZ281500

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its been done, wasnt impressive by any means but some people use what they have, fuel tuning mods would be necesary, Michael pretty much gave you the only info your gonna need. as for 400s runnign hot? i never had an issue, but others have, i dont overbore them though, if it needs boring its junk to me on a 400.
 
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