Soft brake pedel

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Dom2door

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So after reading more I come to the conclusion that the first plunger in the master cylinder is defective. From what Schurkey wrote in an other post that the first plunger takes up the slack of the front calipers being low drag.

Schurkey quote
"HOWEVER they work, low-drag calipers MUST have a gush of fluid (high volume, low pressure) when you first push the pedal. The bigass rear piston is what provides that gush of fluid. That pushes the disc pads up to the rotor, then the high-pressure section of the master cylinder takes over and actually squeezes the rotor. If there's no big piston to provide that gush, the pedal goes way down because the high-pressure section of the master has to supply the large volume of fluid."

I will be changing the master cylinder again.

Found this https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/brakes-quick-take-up-master-cylinder.html
 
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Schurkey

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Entirely possible.

It's far more likely that you've still got air in the system somewhere, including air in the ABS or in the master cylinder.

Buy the correct master cylinder for your brakes. There's at least two sizes of Quick Take-Up cylinders for GMT400 vehicles. They're listed as metric sizes, but effectively the main cylinders are one-inch or one and an eighth inches. The QTU piston is 32mm (?) or 40 mm.
 

chris_d

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I have own two 94s and both vehicles' brake pedals would lower when the engine is started. I always assume it was the brake power booster activating and it was just the nature of the beast. My last 94 and this new to me 94 both also have/had a lot of brake travel when braking, but seem to stop just fine.

So this isn't normal then?
 

Dom2door

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The pedal just has very little resistance until it is even with the gas pedal, there I can feel some air in the system. I am using the JB5 master cylinder, I have not measured the master cylinder, I will. I have an extra master cylinder and going to pull out the QTU valve and mess with it.
The weather right now is bad, I will keep updating.
Bad master cylinders are way to common.
 
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I have a 1999 two door Tahoe
I am sure this has been talked about, read all I could find on line but no real fixes.

I did replace all of the flex lines , calipers, pads, shoes, master cylinder and rear cylinders.

I bleed the system every witch way , presser, two person, pressure and two person, and reverse bleeding by pushing fluid up to the master cylinder. I also did bleed the ABS system via automatic bleeding.
I tracked it down to my calipers. I pinched off the flex lines an I get a good hard pedal this tells me that there is no air in the lines. I don't know what would cause this in my front calipers and the back could be a little out of adjustment.
Pedal gets better with just the back flex line pinched. Pinching the passenger front has more effect on the pedal then the driver side front. Could it be bad calipers?
Thanks for any help, Dom.

Bleed the ABS module at the ports on the sides of the valve body there is tiny steel balls under the rubber dust caps use a rounded tipped punch or object to not scratch these balls or may cause a leak, depress these balls while you are pressure bleeding the system from the top, also if you can get a brand new master cylinder ac delco go this right all the so called new or reman units from your box auto parts store for these style of trucks are down right garbage, I have great success making these old trucks brake good again, make sure you replace the flex line from frame to rear axle an you throughly flush all brake fluid from system an go with all brand new fluid this will take a ton of ton to bleed the entire system the only way is to pressure bleed from the master cylinder down, an at each wheel put a hose an Teflon tape on bleeder to help aid leaks when bleeder valves are broke free start at RR first the LR the RF the. LF, bench bleed the master cylinder in a vise first this takes over 100 stokes of the piston in the master cylinder bore, use the hoses connected at ports of master make sure there secured an submerged in brake fluid in reservoir an they do not slip out an slowly depress the piston 20 times slightly tapping on body of master cylinder to help aid in release of trapped air, also I have find using the stainless steel braided flex lines at both front wheels an rear line from frame to axle helps a lot, make sure your rear brake shoes are adjusted properly and that all hardware is installed correctly, the front calipers there is not much to go wrong, if there not leaking and the pistons move freely in the caliper bores you are golden here make sure caliper slides are moving freely an the caliper at the steering knuckle is free to move with no rust jacking or debree, also use quality brake pads, everything you do from the pad surface to the drum surface back to the brake pedal will add up in the firmness of your brake pedal, I have done countless systems on these trucks, my most preferred method is convert to hydro boost an repeat everything above an it gives quite amazing brakes an can throw unbuckled passengers through the front t windshield over the hood from 60 to dead stop! Hope you have good tires! An also good working ABS
 

Schurkey

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I have own two 94s and both vehicles' brake pedals would lower when the engine is started. I always assume it was the brake power booster activating and it was just the nature of the beast.
That's how it works. Totally normal.

My last 94 and this new to me 94 both also have/had a lot of brake travel when braking, but seem to stop just fine.

So this isn't normal then?
Probably not normal. If these vehicles have the sihtty 254mm (10") rear drums, they're just about guaranteed to be way out of adjustment. Adjust the rear brakes, see what happens.

Air in the ABS is also common.

Bleed the ABS module at the ports on the sides of the valve body there is tiny steel balls under the rubber dust caps use a rounded tipped punch or object to not scratch these balls or may cause a leak, depress these balls while you are pressure bleeding the system from the top,
Not applicable to the newer, "EBC310" series ABS controller. That did work with the older EBC4 controller. The "proper" way is described in the .pdf below.

also if you can get a brand new master cylinder ac delco go this right all the so called new or reman units from your box auto parts store for these style of trucks are down right garbage,
I bought an AC-Delco master cylinder for my '88. Fookin' thing was made in Communist China like all the usual auto-parts-store brands.

OTOH, it did work. But then, I have reasonable results from the normal auto-parts-store parts, too.

bench bleed the master cylinder in a vise first this takes over 100 stokes of the piston in the master cylinder bore, use the hoses connected at ports of master make sure there secured an submerged in brake fluid in reservoir an they do not slip out an slowly depress the piston 20 times slightly tapping on body of master cylinder to help aid in release of trapped air,
Yup. Many folks do not get all the air out of the master cylinder during "bench bleeding", and that air is unlikely to be released in-the-vehicle. Then they blame a "defective" master cylinder when the truth is they just didn't spend enough time and effort to properly and THOROUGHLY bench-bleed.

also I have find using the stainless steel braided flex lines at both front wheels an rear line from frame to axle helps a lot,
I'm a fan of the steel-braid-over-Teflon (PTFE) liner brake hoses. That said...even new rubber hoses are an improvement over aged or cracking original hoses. The rubber hoses swell over time, reducing the fluid channel. The brakes are relatively slow to engage...and release. This is often more-apparent at the rear, where you're feeding two wheel cylinders with one hose.

make sure your rear brake shoes are adjusted properly and that all hardware is installed correctly,
VERY important, absolutely crucial with the crappy 10" leading/trailing shoe rear drums.

the front calipers there is not much to go wrong, if there not leaking and the pistons move freely in the caliper bores you are golden here
Yes...but...it's REALLY COMMON for the caliper pistons to not move freely in the bores. In fact, it's almost epidemic where aluminum calipers are used. Even iron calipers build-up dreck, sludge, and they coat the square-cut seal with a hard "crust". The pistons get the same sort of sludge build-up on them. Anyway, the piston doesn't move freely leading to uneven braking and if it gets bad enough, poor braking and/or rapid pad wear.

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As said, the ABS MUST be properly bled, and that usually means using a scan tool to perform an "automated bleed" sequence before doing a final-bleed at the calipers and wheel cylinders.
 

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  • 1990s_GM_Light_Truck_Kelsey_Hayes_ABS_Brake_Bleeding_Procedure_Ref_Cards.pdf
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chris_d

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Probably not normal. If these vehicles have the sihtty 254mm (10") rear drums, they're just about guaranteed to be way out of adjustment. Adjust the rear brakes, see what happens.

Air in the ABS is also common.

Yes, they both have/had drums. I will have to learn/check the adjustment. BTW neither truck has ABS. Thanks for the info.
 

chris_d

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The 254mm (10") drums are the problems. The 11.x and the 13" drums are enormously better at staying in adjustment.


You removed the ABS?
Wow, I stand corrected, I just looked at the original window sticker and it has rear-wheel anti-lock brakes. I never knew this. This is a C2500 does it have bigger drums than the C1500? I just found this truck and it only has 81K miles.
 

Schurkey

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I just looked at the original window sticker and it has rear-wheel anti-lock brakes. I never knew this.
Two versions of the Kelsey-Hayes RWAL: Early models had a cast-iron body with it's own bleeder screw. Easy to bleed.

Later versions had an aluminum body, no bleeder screw. I've never dicked with those, but I expect they're moderately-easy to bleed.

Far as I know, neither one needs a scan tool, there is no "automated bleed" sequence--but I could be wrong. I thought RWAL was all done by '94. I guess I was wrong.

This is a C2500 does it have bigger drums than the C1500? I just found this truck and it only has 81K miles.
Very likely. Open the glove box, look for the brake option code. I bet you find either "JN6" or "JB6", which has the 11.x "Duo-Servo" rear drums instead of the crappy 254mm "Leading/Trailing Shoe" drums.

With a little luck, you've got the "14-bolt" axle, (probably 9.5" ring gear, semi-float) which itself is heaps better than the 8.5" ring gear axle of the 1500s.
 
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