My 454 Rebuild

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Orpedcrow

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L31MaxExpress

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454cid, while you are at it, if you can find out what aftermarket spark plug
wire loom L31MaxExpress installed, I'd highly recommend it for the following
reason. There's something called the 'Inverse-Squared Law' in electricity that
we can take advantage of.

For example, if we double the distance between 2 wires, instead of 1/2 the coupling
like you would assume, it's actually results in only 1/4 of the coupling! (induced voltage)

NOTE: With the 5/7 layout, there will always be an inevitable degree of coupling
among wires running alongside each other, but the *key* is that the
resulting induced voltage stays *below* what it takes to fire the spark plug gap
on the 'too early' plug.

No doubt using the new wire-wound wires in accordance with the factory guidance
will get the job done, but if I can then add a little insurance policy by doubling the
'good enuf' distance and ending up with 1/4 of the induced voltage, I think that's a good deal.

I'm hoping that L31MaxExpress can share what he's using -- heck, I'll buy a set!
And take pics of it & share that as well. :0)

My setup is on a small block. I have used actually a couple of different setups on the small blocks I have built recently. Both fairly universal solutions.

The Express van has an inexpensive universal rail setup from Amazon. It was setup for 7 or 8.5-9mm wires by opening up some extra plastic molded into the clips. It can fit most engines.

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The G20 van has a set of MSD looms. They have a snap together design and have a hole through them to mount a 1/4-20 cap screw.

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Spareparts

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Observations from the drive home.
Idling is where the misfires show up the most.
Off idle driving the misfire is still there but you can just barely feel it when accelerating. Just holding a steady pedal it is smooth as glass. Someone not familiar with it may not even notice it driving.
Driving it does not register any misfires.
Idling in park has more registered misfires than in gear with a slight load.
#7 is the worst offender and #8 registering more than random. The remaining cylinders register 1 or 2 random misfires.

No mistake about it. Changing the rotor made a huge positive difference. Better idle and way more power.

I have forgot to mention i have also been playing with spark plugs and gaps trying to eliminate the misfires.
Currently, i have AcDelco R44LTS6 installed with a .045 gap. I have tried .035 and .060. Playing with gap has not really changed anything but was worth a try.
If the #4 new cap cures the misfires i'll put the iridium back in gaped at .060.
 

Road Trip

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No mistake about it. Changing the rotor made a huge positive difference. Better idle and way more power.

I'm dating myself, but I remember when we went through GM's conversion from
mechanical points to the new HEI system. And in those early years before they
upgraded the material it was made out of, we traced a *lot* of intermittent misfires
to the spark taking the easiest path from coil to ground...which was straight through
the rotor itself and to the metal shaft it was bolted to. (!)

The rotor is simply one of those parts that needs to always be at the top of the
suspect list -- one of those 'assume it's guilty until proven innocent'. :0)

Glad to hear that you are making some progress!
 
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L31MaxExpress

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I'm dating myself, but I remember when we converted from mechanical points to the new HEI
system. And in those early years before they upgraded the material it was made out of,
we traced a *lot* of intermittent misfires to the spark taking the easiest path from coil to ground...
which was straight through the rotor itself and to the metal shaft it was bolted to. (!)

The rotor is one of those parts that needs to be at the top of the suspect list -- one of
those 'assume it's guilty until proven innocent'. :0)

Glad to hear that you are making some progress!

You could not see it from the top either. It was right where the plastic was molded over the conductor.

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HotWheelsBurban

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Misfires usually show up worse at idle or lower speeds, because the faster you go, the higher the RPM is so eventually it will seem to smooth out. Because the firing is happening so fast that if it still misfires, you can't tell it. Think of a slower guitar part in a song, and then a really fast part. Which one is it going to be more obvious in if the guitarist misses a note?
I've been chasing a similar problem on my '97 Vortec 5.7 crew cab. This truck is lower mileage (so your diagnosis on the valve springs being unequal may apply to a degree here). Since buying it last year it's been driven at least every other day. The truck had old gas when we got it, so I changed the filter pretty quickly and ran Berrymans B12 Chemtool through the first couple of tanks. That helped considerably; the idle was really rough when we first drove it, like "ants in its pants". Next step was new UMP vented distributor cap and rotor, and that made a bunch more difference. Getting it a bit smoother. Couple months later I changed the plugs, put AC iridium 41-993(gapped at .045" I think?). Replacing the plugs with same brand and number as was in it,most likely the original ones. Mo'betta....but not where I want it yet.
Basically I want this truck to idle so smooth you have to look at the tach to be sure it's running... like its brother Burb does(and Burb has twice the miles on its 350!). So I got some additional separators and moved the plug wires around as much as possible, to keep 5 and 7 apart. I probably will change the wires once it's cooler, but they don't appear damaged or feel like they're coming apart internally. Next on the list is a new PCV valve, looking at it today and it's grungier than I like to see them.
Both of these Vortec 350s run great when you get your foot in the throttle, and don't take much throttle to get to 60 or more. And running loaded doesn't make too much difference there.
I've also read some posts on here from others with '97 trucks, that say that some of the "stutter" at idle when warmed up( like a horse snorting and shaking its head) is from the PCM trying to retune the engine to run more efficiently. When it would do this, would be when it's sitting parked, running at Park idle speed which is around 700 RPM,for 10-15 minutes, when waiting on someone or in a drive thru, or in heavy traffic. It does this infrequently now, because I try to keep idling to a minimum because I know how it affects the gas mileage, and I don't think it's good for the truck when it's as hot as it is here this time of year. Was 101° officially today and that's the lowest temperature in 3 weeks.....
I have not replaced the coil or module yet. Distributor shaft felt good and firm, no noticeable play, when I changed the cap and rotor.
 

L31MaxExpress

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Misfires usually show up worse at idle or lower speeds, because the faster you go, the higher the RPM is so eventually it will seem to smooth out. Because the firing is happening so fast that if it still misfires, you can't tell it. Think of a slower guitar part in a song, and then a really fast part. Which one is it going to be more obvious in if the guitarist misses a note?
I've been chasing a similar problem on my '97 Vortec 5.7 crew cab. This truck is lower mileage (so your diagnosis on the valve springs being unequal may apply to a degree here). Since buying it last year it's been driven at least every other day. The truck had old gas when we got it, so I changed the filter pretty quickly and ran Berrymans B12 Chemtool through the first couple of tanks. That helped considerably; the idle was really rough when we first drove it, like "ants in its pants". Next step was new UMP vented distributor cap and rotor, and that made a bunch more difference. Getting it a bit smoother. Couple months later I changed the plugs, put AC iridium 41-993(gapped at .045" I think?). Replacing the plugs with same brand and number as was in it,most likely the original ones. Mo'betta....but not where I want it yet.
Basically I want this truck to idle so smooth you have to look at the tach to be sure it's running... like its brother Burb does(and Burb has twice the miles on its 350!). So I got some additional separators and moved the plug wires around as much as possible, to keep 5 and 7 apart. I probably will change the wires once it's cooler, but they don't appear damaged or feel like they're coming apart internally. Next on the list is a new PCV valve, looking at it today and it's grungier than I like to see them.
Both of these Vortec 350s run great when you get your foot in the throttle, and don't take much throttle to get to 60 or more. And running loaded doesn't make too much difference there.
I've also read some posts on here from others with '97 trucks, that say that some of the "stutter" at idle when warmed up( like a horse snorting and shaking its head) is from the PCM trying to retune the engine to run more efficiently. When it would do this, would be when it's sitting parked, running at Park idle speed which is around 700 RPM,for 10-15 minutes, when waiting on someone or in a drive thru, or in heavy traffic. It does this infrequently now, because I try to keep idling to a minimum because I know how it affects the gas mileage, and I don't think it's good for the truck when it's as hot as it is here this time of year. Was 101° officially today and that's the lowest temperature in 3 weeks.....
I have not replaced the coil or module yet. Distributor shaft felt good and firm, no noticeable play, when I changed the cap and rotor.

We have had the 97 since it was 1 year old with like 13,000 miles. It has always had the shudder you speak of at low-idle. Most noticeable in Park/Neutral. It had the same shudder with the 0411. The PCM varies ignition timing rather than moving the IAC for small idle speed changes. When I disabled the idle variation, it smoothed the engine out, but then it hunted 25-50 rpm with the slow IAC constantly hunting position. I reduced some of the idle spark variation and upped the rpm change for IAC response. That helped a bit but it still had a bit of choppiness to the idle.
 

L31MaxExpress

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Years ago when I still had the stock cam in the 350, I had shorty headers and high flow cats on it along with the stock muffler. I cut off the stock muffler, fitted a 3" dual inlet, single 4" outlet Y-pipe and a 4" tail pipe to the stock exhaust tubing. At low idle the engine definitely had a bit of choppiness to it. The van actually sounded great with no muffler only the cats but was too loud for my taste especially around town where it drew un-wanted attention from the local law enforcement. They knew that I burried the go pedal 2 miles away.

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Spareparts

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454, different animal then a 5.7
My old engine idled smooth and had no misfires so should this rebuilt 454.
Ignition system may be the same but I would think there is to many other variables.
 
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