TBI - TPI - Multi-Port EFI Retrofit

[Squirrelly McNuts]

I'd love to see some data to back that up other than the dyno sheets from K&N themselves which are almost certainly fudged a little. Regardless, the factory intakes on these trucks (especially the K47 boxes on the Vortec trucks) flow more than enough for all but extremely heavily modified engines. I'm not sure about the TBI intakes as I've never owned one, but I'd imagine they're sufficient. My statement about Volant or nothing still applies though, they're the only company with a proper closed box design even for the TBIs that I'm aware of.

Also I completely missed the original topic of this post, which stated you were working with a TBI, and trying to go TPI. I just saw the programmer and CAI bit and had to chime in, I apologize! @pro17's posts are probably the best info you're going to get here.

df2x4 I don't mined talking about this at all (as long as it stays civil). While it may not be directly on topic it is directly related. Now I am going to preface what I am about to say with I am NOT an expert. However I am very well read on this particular topic. I fined it very fascinating.

First I do not have on hand a dyno sheet to point to for comparable data (If I do fined one I will let you know. I will be looking). However both "Hot Rod" and "Four Wheeler" magazines have done several articles on the topic with dyno testing. I am certin others have as well I just have not read them. While I don't think either has done K&N specifically, they have done very similar kits. All the reading I have done on the subject boils down to faster air makes for crisper throttler response, SOME HP at the top end (depending on the engine and other mods involved), and in some cases MPG gains.

Second you are correct a good late model style intake will breath well enough to not hinder the engine, even a mildly modified one. However that dose not mean it is Ideal. Factory systems are built based on packaging, expense to make and ease of installation. Most factory air systems have at least one 90% bend in them and any article from a reputable source will tell you the least amount of bends and the grater the angle of thous bends, the faster the air, the better. Most after market air intake systems are marketed as "cold air" only because it is the buzz word that a non car person is going to look for. Most just rout the air better with less 90% bends and a pod filter to make them look cool but better angles are better angles. You could just as easily use the stock air box and re-plum the piping to be smoother and more direct. Achieving just as good if not better results.

Lastly what I can point you to is an episode of "Engine Masters" -->

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While they do not test an modern style "Snorkel" systems. There is a lot of good dyno proven results that give you the basics of what to look for in a good air intake system.

 

[df2x4]

df2x4 I don't mined talking about this at all (as long as it stays civil). While it may not be directly on topic it is directly related. Now I am going to preface what I am about to say with I am NOT an expert. However I am very well read on this particular topic. I fined it very fascinating.

First I do not have on hand a dyno sheet to point to for comparable data (If I do fined one I will let you know. I will be looking). However both "Hot Rod" and "Four Wheeler" magazines have done several articles on the topic with dyno testing. I am certin others have as well I just have not read them. While I don't think either has done K&N specifically, they have done very similar kits. All the reading I have done on the subject boils down to faster air makes for crisper throttler response, SOME HP at the top end (depending on the engine and other mods involved), and in some cases MPG gains.

Second you are correct a good late model style intake will breath well enough to not hinder the engine, even a mildly modified one. However that dose not mean it is Ideal. Factory systems are built based on packaging, expense to make and ease of installation. Most factory air systems have at least one 90% bend in them and any article from a reputable source will tell you the least amount of bends and the grater the angle of thous bends, the faster the air, the better. Most after market air intake systems are marketed as "cold air" only because it is the buzz word that a non car person is going to look for. Most just rout the air better with less 90% bends and a pod filter to make them look cool but better angles are better angles. You could just as easily use the stock air box and re-plum the piping to be smoother and more direct. Achieving just as good if not better results.

Lastly what I can point you to is an episode of "Engine Masters" -->

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

While they do not test an modern style "Snorkel" systems. There is a lot of good dyno proven results that give you the basics of what to look for in a good air intake system.

To civil discussion!

I agree with all your principles of a good flowing intake 100%, and I've seen that episode (and all the rest) of Engine Masters. However like you said, they were testing older intake technology, and on a carb setup. I'm talking specifically about the need (or rather lack of a need) for an aftermarket intake on these trucks, with a fuel injected setup. I'm willing to bet that an A-B dyno test with a factory intake vs an open box aftermarket design (like a K&N FIPK) would reveal that the open box intake would actually lose a little power.

This is why I suggested that if you need or want an aftermarket intake for these trucks to get a Volant. That way you get the best of both worlds. Smoother tubing with less bends, and a sealed filter box that draws cool outside air from the fender just like GM intended it to. I'm not saying there isn't a better option out there than the factory intakes. I'm just saying that not many people need them, and those who do would be wise to steer clear of open box designs like the K&N. Just my two cents.

 

[pro17]

I guess i was thinking of another thread, about the 454. that changes everything thing. You have TPI, Vortec, Miniram, LT1.

 

[Tachyon]

Agree with everything above, except the programmer and cold air intake. A real tune will be worlds better than a handheld programmer, and a "cold air intake" is completely unnecessary. I'm actually ripping a K&N FIPK out of my red truck right now in favor of a factory K47 airbox because the open box design of the K&N actually raised my intake air temps. If you must have one for looks alone, at least get a Volant. They're the only people who make one with a closed box design that draws cool air from the factory fender hole.

Well, I actually said "...tune or programmer..."
Not everyone has access to a tuner, let alone a trustworthy one. Everyone can get a programmer delivered to their door and it's still a huge improvement over stock.
That said, of course a professional tune is better if you have that option. The point was that you need to do something to the ECU otherwise all the other upgrades are pointless.

As for the K&N bashing, I'll take the dozens of independent dyno results that utterly disprove your assertion over someone's gut feeling or opinion.
Secondly it's a generalization that doesn't apply anyway on a GMT400 since the K&N FIPK still places the intake next to the cool air port in the inner fender and shields it from the heat of the engine.
That and I'm capable of reading the output of the IAT sensor via ODB-II rather than just assuming things. Of course if you sit in the driveway with the engine running and read the IAT, the temps will go up. This is true with the stock intake too. When you're actually moving it's a whole other story.

If anyone was actually concerned about intake temps, the K&N FIPK gives you a great starting point that would take minimal modification to pull only through the factory fender inlet. The problem is that that inlet is more restrictive than the K&N so you're trading airflow for a couple degrees of temperature. Maybe. If your truck is anything but white or silver, in the sunlight that fender is going to act like the opposite of an intercooler, putting heat into the inlet air.

Ultimately, unless you're putting an unfiltered velocity stack right through the hood, you're not gaining anything over the FIPK worth talking about.

 

[Tachyon]

I appropriate the info but it said it is for a Vortec engine which I do not have.


Well K&N specialize in "free flowing" intakes not "cold air" so higher temp is not uncommon with them but over all performance usually goes up. In any case I will be doing a custom active hood scoop this summer.

Oops, sorry about that. I replied based on your OP and assumed it was a Vortec truck.
In that case, the Camaro intake might make some sense. Or a GM Marine intake.
I think though, if I was going to put that much effort into it, I'd look at going to an aftermarket system, even if you use the GM TPI intake.

 

[ccreddell]

It was all at one time. I changed over to Vortec heads, and had to get a new manifold because the bolt pattern is different.

 

[df2x4]

As for the K&N bashing, I'll take the dozens of independent dyno results that utterly disprove your assertion over someone's gut feeling or opinion

Link please?

Secondly it's a generalization that doesn't apply anyway on a GMT400 since the K&N FIPK still places the intake next to the cool air port in the inner fender and shields it from the heat of the engine.

Next to does not equal in. Shielded does not equal sealed.

That and I'm capable of reading the output of the IAT sensor via ODB-II rather than just assuming things. Of course if you sit in the driveway with the engine running and read the IAT, the temps will go up. This is true with the stock intake too. When you're actually moving it's a whole other story.

Me too, which is exactly why I'm ripping the K&N FIPK out of my red truck and putting a factory K47 box back in, coincidentally.

Ultimately, unless you're putting an unfiltered velocity stack right through the hood, you're not gaining anything over the FIPK worth talking about.

I saw in your sig that you owned an FIPK, I knew this response was coming. I get defending something you spent that much money on, really I do. The thing is, so did I. I felt pretty silly after I figured out that my IATs went up (not just idling in the driveway) and that I'd spent so much money to accomplish that.

An internal combustion engine with fuel injection will only suck down as much air as it needs to. Ergo, the smoother path of air through the K&N is unnecessary for all but extremely heavily modified engines. You're welcome to believe whatever you like, but I'm going to have to see some of these "independent dyno results," on one of these trucks, if you expect to change my mind.

 

[ccreddell]

One thing you need to understand is that, if youre using a stock TB, you have two 46mm (X2=3.62") holes for the air to go through. Theres no way a 5" hole in the fender is a restriction. In fact, the stock air cleaner with the flapper removed, is no restriction either. And if you remove the big muffler on the fender and go direct, youre still going to get cooler air (no matter what color the truck is) when your moving than the air inside the engine compartment.

 

[Tachyon]

Because you can't work Google...
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-under-hood-22/fipk-ii-dyno-results-525116/

And that's on a tiny little Honda.

Because I'm not an idiot, I actually did my research before I bought the FIPK so despite your insulting claim that I'm defending my ignorant purchase, I'm actually defending the facts I used to make that purchase decision in the first place.
Unfortunately the one third party site that I can remember the name of that I checked out with third party dyno test results no longer has that post online. That was a full test with dyno results at chevy fullsize. I can't recall the other sites but I had found three sources. Two online and one from one of the performance or truck print magazines I had subscribed to.

As for the hole in the fender, good grief, do you have the faintest clue about airflow and aerodynamics? That sharp edged hole in the fender causes terrible turbulence in the airflow, not to mention what passing through the rest of the convoluted fender pathway does. The Engine Masters video already linked in this post debunks half the crap you guys have spewed. Including demonstrating the huge importance of smooth intake curves. Not to mention the superior flow of the H&N filters.

And of course this all assumes that K&N have gotten away with posting falsified Dyno results in their sales literature for the last few decades with no one calling them on it, like the FTC for example. Hell their competitors would turn them in because you know they must test against them.

Your gut feelings or ridiculous brand biases are not science.

 

[Tachyon]

Hot Rod magazine....

Bolt On Horsepower In An Afternoon
Okay, this is a test we’ve done time and again, and each time we do it, we’re amazed by the results. It’s a simple deal, really; we get a K&N air-filter assembly and bolt it on to the vehicle de jour, strap it to a chassis dyno, and ogle the resultant printout reporting a big power gain at the tires. We’ll cut to the chase and tell you that bolting K&N’s FIPK air-breather assembly in place of the stock piece on a ’99 Dakota R/T gave us a net gain of 10 hp at the rear wheels. That’s 10 hp and still smog legal in every state, for nothing more than about 20 minutes worth of work.
​

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/20142-k-n-air-filter-test/