Steering lockup HELP! Borgeson Steering Shaft rag joint

[justin93]

Well, I've said my bit on who's responsible for what and when and what might happen so lets move on to figuring out what is going on with your truck.

To see if it's the hydraulics or the mechanical part of the box I'd remove the power steering belt and see if it changes anything.

If it's just hard to turn but smooth otherwise, it's a hydraulic problem and you're looking at the pump or the power assist part of the box. I'd roll the truck a bit while attempting to turn the steering wheel just so you're not fighting the tires grip or the pavement. Basically, manual steering but a bit stiffer.

If the binding is still there or it locks up with no hydraulics, your problem is likely in the worm gear assembly or you should be able to see it if the shaft is binding in the rag joint or otherwise.

That will at least narrow it down a bit for starters...

If i remove the power steering belt (on the pulley) i wouldn't be able to start my truck, are you saying to take the power steering belt off and without the truck being on try turning it ?
I did that initially and it was resistant but smoothly turning from left to right but only reached about a maximum of 1/8 turn lock (each direction) while the truck is off it has a steering wheel lock so i couldnt do anything more than that.

Could you elaborate a little more on how i should check it out ? unsure of the power steering 'belt' other than the one set on the pulley, is that what you mean?
and if it is a hydraulic problem its either the power steering pump or the power assist part attatched to the steering gear box ?
Thanks great white for all the feed back

 

[sewlow]

Just remember, if it comes down to a court case, you have to prove your claims 100% without a doubt. He only has to raise 1%, or less, of doubt. If the judge says...'Hmmm...maybe..." or "What if..." or "That's not clear.", Bodyshop boy will walk outa there scott-free. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row to ensure that that won't happen. Pics, video, records, witnesses, receipts.

 

[great white]

If i remove the power steering belt (on the pulley) i wouldn't be able to start my truck, are you saying to take the power steering belt off and without the truck being on try turning it ?
I did that initially and it was resistant but smoothly turning from left to right but only reached about a maximum of 1/8 turn lock (each direction) while the truck is off it has a steering wheel lock so i couldnt do anything more than that.

Could you elaborate a little more on how i should check it out ? unsure of the power steering 'belt' other than the one set on the pulley, is that what you mean?
and if it is a hydraulic problem its either the power steering pump or the power assist part attatched to the steering gear box ?
Thanks great white for all the feed back

Yes, the belt on the power steering pulley. Your truck will start and run fine without it. Take it right off the ps pump and the crank pulley. You're not going more than a few feet at most anyways.

With the belt removed there is no hydraulics and you essentially have manual steering. If it is still binding it's not the hydraulic side of the house, it's mechanical.

Now I'm going to say something that I hope you don't take the wrong way:

I'm not trying to be insulting but at this point I'm going to say perhaps you should have a shop look at it. The nature of your questions indicate that might be the best/safest route here.

Cheers

 

[skylark]

Disconnect the steering at the pitman arm and see if your steering is still bound up. If so then the problem is between the column and box. If not then you need to start looking at the tie rods and ball joints. Also, for what it's worth , I agree with great white. Your last post makes me question your abilities, if a judge does the same, your screwed.

 

[justin93]

Yes, the belt on the power steering pulley. Your truck will start and run fine without it. Take it right off the ps pump and the crank pulley. You're not going more than a few feet at most anyways.

With the belt removed there is no hydraulics and you essentially have manual steering. If it is still binding it's not the hydraulic side of the house, it's mechanical.

Now I'm going to say something that I hope you don't take the wrong way:

I'm not trying to be insulting but at this point I'm going to say perhaps you should have a shop look at it. The nature of your questions indicate that might be the best/safest route here.

Cheers

Not at all great white, i understand its a very big safety factor Im taking my vehicle to a 4WD Fabrication shop that specializes in steering componentry inside and out and rebuilds the original steering gear boxes/components.
I installed my Borgeson steering shaft with a close family relative who graduated from wyotech but at this point i'd rather cough up some cash and have it done at a professional business that warranties there work.

@skylark ,Essentially im replacing the entire steering shaft that the paint/body shop decided to mess with as i've already replaced the power steering. i disconnected my idler arm but it's still bound up, i tried running my truck with the power steering belt off the ps pump and crank shaft pulley then rolling in drive and turning - it was able to be turned but was binding almost through every degree of turning.

Because of This would lead me to believe somewhere in between the gear box to the column is the problem?
Also if anyone else on here has had a shop remove/install the steering shaft how much did that cost? just want to get a ballpark estimate as i wanted to put in new gears and now this fiasco of a mess is making it a little harder on the wallet to achieve.

I'm more set on getting the problem fixed with the truck, my steering shaft replacement is free because it fell under the warranty and i ended up getting a double u joint as opposed to rag joint to u joint. (free exchange) I spoke to a few 4wd specialists and they said they don't ever see anyone that runs the traditional rag to u joint on a lifted let alone body lifted vehicle - they could be talking out there a$$ but i take everything with a grain of salt and cross reference that information with reliable sourcing.

@sewlow, i've been getting all the text messages/invoices phone calls in and out printed out as well as pictures. My truck actually came back with 98 more miles on it then when i dropped it off hmm.. glad i took a picture.
I have a folder i've been preparing with every possible last detail date and time mileage and video of the vehicle running prior and after service with dates and times to prove it, as well as craigslist! (had it posted with videos from early to late july)

@greatwhite , I agree taking it to a shop would be my safest bet, i don't want to make things harder or more expensive for myself so i'd rather have it done right and take the time off and learn how they diagnose the situation then how to properly assess and fix the problem area.
If im every paying a shop im always with my vehicle watching, or attentively asking questions. except this instance is a good example of what happens when your not there.

Im still trying to learn how to link a video to this forum so you guys can hear/compare quality of idle and startup from prior to current condition. the more i think about it the more it bums me out but if i could get more input or advice it would raise my awareness of what might of actually suffered damage or failure.

Thanks again everyone for the replies hope everyone had a great weekend as well.

 

[sewlow]

They put 98 miles on it? WTF? I've had customers freak out on me 'cause I've put 4/10ths of a mile on their vehicle! I drove it from the back yard, down the alley, & around to the front of the house so that I could wash it & have the vehicle nice & clean, ready for them when they pick it up. Basically, 1/2 way around the block! 98 miles? That ain't right! Not at all!

 

[94Sierra4x4]

They put 98 miles on it? WTF? I've had customers freak out on me 'cause I've put 4/10ths of a mile on their vehicle! I drove it from the back yard, down the alley, & around to the front of the house so that I could wash it & have the vehicle nice & clean, ready for them when they pick it up. Basically, 1/2 way around the block! 98 miles? That ain't right! Not at all!

At this point I'd be looking for chunks of burnt rubber in the wheel wells...
Who knows what they did with this thing.
Shops take advantage of people the second the realize they aren't 100% mechanically inclined.
Some peoples kids.

 

[sewlow]

Once worked next door to a muscle car/high performance resto shop.
Elderly lady brings in her deceased hubby's '72 455 442 ragtop, for a tune-up. Hubby had bought it brand new. Always received the best of everything. Low low miles. Never been beat on!
The lady hadn't been gone 5 minutes, & here's the owner of the shop doing massive burnouts in the complex's parking lot with it. Not once. Not twice. But for the next 20 minutes! Laughing the whole time! All his employees egging him on! What kinda respectable shop does this?
Normally, I'd mind my own biz. This guy pissed me off so much I had to go verbally slap him upside the head! Just who the h3ll does Bozo think he is? And where does he get the right to abuse someone else's pride & joy? Grrr!
I know that if someone did that to my vehicle, I'd want to know!
I made sure that the owner knew what her vehicle had been through when she came to pick it up!
She ended up getting the work on her car done for free! Bought our shop coffee, dohnuts, & a huge box of chocolates!
The 'performance shop' had been in biz for 4 years. He closed the doors within 2 months after this!
What goes around, comes around!
No kidding, "Some people's kids"!!!

 

[94Sierra4x4]

Once worked next door to a muscle car/high performance resto shop.
Elderly lady brings in her deceased hubby's '72 455 442 ragtop, for a tune-up. Hubby had bought it brand new. Always received the best of everything. Low low miles. Never been beat on!
The lady hadn't been gone 5 minutes, & here's the owner of the shop doing massive burnouts in the complex's parking lot with it. Not once. Not twice. But for the next 20 minutes! Laughing the whole time! All his employees egging him on! What kinda respectable shop does this?
Normally, I'd mind my own biz. This guy pissed me off so much I had to go verbally slap him upside the head! Just who the h3ll does Bozo think he is? And where does he get the right to abuse someone else's pride & joy? Grrr!
I know that if someone did that to my vehicle, I'd want to know!
I made sure that the owner knew what her vehicle had been through when she came to pick it up!
She ended up getting the work on her car done for free! Bought our shop coffee, dohnuts, & a huge box of chocolates!
The 'performance shop' had been in biz for 4 years. He closed the doors within 2 months after this!
What goes around, comes around!
No kidding, "Some people's kids"!!!

Good man. The elderly are constantly taken advantage of. It disgusts me.
Good riddance to that shop.

 

[justin93]

At this point I'd be looking for chunks of burnt rubber in the wheel wells...
Who knows what they did with this thing.
Shops take advantage of people the second the realize they aren't 100% mechanically inclined.
Some peoples kids.

Thats interesting because i just cleaned out my wheel wells sanded them down then scrubbed them down with APC and while i was scrubbing with a wire brush i noticed HUGE chunks of rubber/gravel inside my inner lip between the first lip and the fender flare. The Wheel wells look CLEAN though, i will be refinishing my already spray painted rims from the previous owner the whole 9 yards and get those to pop out from the 3m undercoating on the wheel wells and matte black finish on the frame.

Not saying it was them but i sure haven't driven it to the farm since the power steering pump was fixed which was over a month ago so.. Also since i have stock 3.73 gears still with my 35's every 3.5 miles reads out to 5 miles on the odometer, i REALLY want to change out the gears as i want to have the truck running at its true potential.

I always take my time and look for there work ethic, communication, prior work, and communication skills along with there body language of how they back up there work. I've scarcely seen shops in my area with this type of professionalism - im sure there are TONS out there but i've only got a small hand-few that i've had great experiences with.
I tend to do the work myself - when i installed the steering shaft with my uncle he never disclosed to me that the whole steering shaft needs to be adjusted/aligned after installation, is this something thats true? Just would hate to get jipped out a good chunk of money for no real reason.

i'll be taking out the old one tomorrow and having it replaced the same day, the Arabia's Overkill (4WD fab. specialists) said it'll be anywhere from an hour to remove the old shaft and install (120$-170$) and for the alignment ($110) decent prices?..

Anyone else have prices they were quoted or services done with how much it cost? Never seeked this service so i don't know what to expect and most shops dont have the ability to do the job in my area since it's lifted and steering specs are very precise

Thats already an easy 250$ :/ I could get one set of gears and install kit for that much money

Are these decent prices ? Not going to question his professionalism as this fellow has a family owned business and i've been to his shop multiple times for no services and he does phenomenal work, some crazy rigs come out of his shop ill take some pictures if i see another gmt400 there wednesday as they specialise in jeeps but he himself has a 98' K15 but that quality of work i'm not asking for some crazy 4 link setup and to chrome all my under carriage components but would you guys say thats a fair price for the work serviced?

I normally don't take my vehicles in unless it needs some major modification or custom work done, im not a cheap SOB but i like to get the best outcome and most out of my money spent with where i put my $$$ into. This case its a safety protocol and also i would love a responsive steering system anyday then one with steering wander or play.