97 OBS 5.7 Radiator

[AuroraGirl]

4 core brass/copper radiators, sure, but aluminum is thinner and the surface area/strength differences.. yeah

 

[GoToGuy]

The number of cores is an out of date gauge of how "big" a radiator is. It's now a marketing game to sell inferior radiators. Fewer wide core tubes are better than many narrow ones.

www.amazon.com/TYC-1693-Chevrolet-Aluminum-Replacement/dp/B000IYR2GS

Is there a reference or some testing done? I'd really like to read up on this. An understanding of a change in cooling applications or methods is something I'd like to be current on as I reside in an area with 100° F plus days on end.

 

[AuroraGirl]

Is there a reference or some testing done? I'd really like to read up on this. An understanding of a change in cooling applications or methods is something I'd like to be current on as I reside in an area with 100° F plus days on end.

i dont have a source thats technical but this here is a good reason:

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[454cid]

Is there a reference or some testing done? I'd really like to read up on this. An understanding of a change in cooling applications or methods is something I'd like to be current on as I reside in an area with 100° F plus days on end.

I dont have anything bookmarked, but I've seen it stated here and there. It comes from the material change from brass/copper to aluminum. To get capacity in a radiator it has to be able to flow more coolant. Tubes could only be so big, so manufacturers would add rows to up capacity. The biggest automotive radiators were "4 cores". When aluminum radiators became the norm things changed because the tubes can be made much larger and it was no longer necessary to use 4 rows to get a high capacity radiator. My truck came with an aluminum 3 row. My current radiator is a two row of the same thickness and the newest radiators are a very large single row from the specs I've seen from TYC. I have not had one of those in hand, yet.

 

[AuroraGirl]

I dont have anything bookmarked, but I've seen it stated here and there. It comes from the material change from brass/copper to aluminum. To get capacity in a radiator it has to be able to flow more coolant. Tubes could only be so big, so manufacturers would add rows to up capacity. The biggest automotive radiators were "4 cores". When aluminum radiators became the norm things changed because the tubes can be made much larger and it was no longer necessary to use 4 rows to get a high capacity radiator. My truck came with an aluminum 3 row. My current radiator is a two row of the same thickness and the newest radiators are a very large single row from the specs I've seen from TYC. I have not had one of those in hand, yet.

my f150 came with a 2 row aluminum with plastic tanks because it had AC, manual trans or no AC would get 1 rows

 

[GoToGuy]

The stuff about Romans is not right. They used clay pipes for water and heated baths. Metal had value, metals were rare. And more than half are just unreadable, green blobs. Yes it's more corrosion resistant. But still corrodes. His context is mixed up.
The radiator size is usually based on how much heat has to be removed. So is there a new formula for these new higher efficiency radiators?
Your new one a single row? In what vehicle , engine ?

 

[evilunclegrimace]

i dont have a source thats technical but this here is a good reason:

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There is so much wrong with this^ Copper is NOT more corrision resistant than Aluminum. Aluminum does not cool 25% better than Copper. Aluminum IS stronger than copper.

 

[AuroraGirl]

There is so much wrong with this^ Copper is NOT more corrision resistant than Aluminum. Aluminum does not cool 25% better than Copper. Aluminum IS stronger than copper.

i agree about copper, the outside of the radiator is just usually painted (which prob makes it less ablle to transfer heat) im not sure if green corrosion on copper inhibits transfer of heat like aluminum oxide would/does (as comparison) or if the paint does much.


Aluminum doesnt cool better than copper as an ELEMENT. BUt the post meant it as the radiators as a unit. The aluminum is able to be built with more thin walls and larger surface area for higher dissipation. that could have been clarified more lol.

 

[evilunclegrimace]

Thermal Conductivity​

Thermal conductivity measures how well a material transfers heat. It indicates the rate at which energy can propagate through a medium.

Copper has excellent thermal conductivity, around 400 W/mK. This allows rapid heat diffusion across temperature gradients. Aluminum’s conductivity is lower at approximately 200 W/mK.

Higher conductivity metals like copper are better for spreading heat quickly across heatsink fins and into the airflow. This enables faster dissipation from heat sources.

Electrical Conductivity​

While seemingly unrelated, a metal’s electrical conductivity is linked to how well it conducts thermal energy. Copper has high electrical conductivity, second only to silver.

In contrast, aluminum has just 59% the conductivity of copper. Its greater electrical resistance results in more electron scattering, impeding heat transfer.

So, copper’s superior electrical conductivity also directly benefits its thermal dissipation capabilities.

Density​

Copper is significantly denser than aluminum, with almost three times the mass per volume. Copper has a density of around 8.9 g/cm^3 compared to aluminum’s 2.7 g/cm^3.

This makes copper heatsinks much heavier for the same size. While good for heat storage, excessive heatsink weight can strain motherboard sockets.

Aluminum’s lower density helps lighten large heatsinks, reducing socket and board stress. This facilitates passive cooling setups.

Specific Heat Capacity​

A metal’s specific heat describes how much energy is needed to raise its temperature by 1°C. This relates directly to thermal energy storage.
Copper can absorb more heat energy per gram before its temperature rises. Copper has around 0.39 J/g°C specific heat versus aluminum’s 0.91 J/g°C.

This gives copper an advantage in managing sudden heat spikes. Its greater capacity slows temperature rise, helping prevent throttling.

Corrosion Resistance​

When exposed to air over time, copper and aluminum both undergo oxidation tarnishing. This can interfere with thermal transfer across mating surfaces.

Aluminum tends to corrode faster than copper, developing a fine-gray oxide layer. Copper oxidizes to form a greenish patina but at a slower rate.
With protective finishes, both can avoid discoloration. But untreated, copper retains its shiny luster and performance longer than aluminum.

Machinability​

Heatsinks require precise machining to create fins and grooves for optimal surface area. This depends on the metal’s hardness and brittleness.
Soft, ductile aluminum is easier to cut, drill, and tap compared to copper. This makes aluminum more amenable to mass production, lowering costs.

Harder copper is more difficult to machine and requires diamond tooling, increasing manufacturing expenses.

Cost​

Copper raw material costs are substantially higher than aluminum, roughly 2-3 times as much per kilogram.

This drives the prices of copper heatsinks much higher than equivalent aluminum models. However, copper’s superior longevity helps offset replacement costs.

For budget builds, aluminum provides adequate cooling at a fraction of the price. But for optimal performance, copper gives unbeatable thermal capabilities.

Understanding these fundamental properties allows matching the best heatsink metal to a specific computer build’s cooling needs and constraints. Both copper and aluminum have roles to play in thermal management.

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[AuroraGirl]

Thermal Conductivity​

Thermal conductivity measures how well a material transfers heat. It indicates the rate at which energy can propagate through a medium.

Copper has excellent thermal conductivity, around 400 W/mK. This allows rapid heat diffusion across temperature gradients. Aluminum’s conductivity is lower at approximately 200 W/mK.

Higher conductivity metals like copper are better for spreading heat quickly across heatsink fins and into the airflow. This enables faster dissipation from heat sources.

Electrical Conductivity​

While seemingly unrelated, a metal’s electrical conductivity is linked to how well it conducts thermal energy. Copper has high electrical conductivity, second only to silver.

In contrast, aluminum has just 59% the conductivity of copper. Its greater electrical resistance results in more electron scattering, impeding heat transfer.

So, copper’s superior electrical conductivity also directly benefits its thermal dissipation capabilities.

Density​

Copper is significantly denser than aluminum, with almost three times the mass per volume. Copper has a density of around 8.9 g/cm^3 compared to aluminum’s 2.7 g/cm^3.

This makes copper heatsinks much heavier for the same size. While good for heat storage, excessive heatsink weight can strain motherboard sockets.

Aluminum’s lower density helps lighten large heatsinks, reducing socket and board stress. This facilitates passive cooling setups.

Specific Heat Capacity​

A metal’s specific heat describes how much energy is needed to raise its temperature by 1°C. This relates directly to thermal energy storage.
Copper can absorb more heat energy per gram before its temperature rises. Copper has around 0.39 J/g°C specific heat versus aluminum’s 0.91 J/g°C.

This gives copper an advantage in managing sudden heat spikes. Its greater capacity slows temperature rise, helping prevent throttling.

Corrosion Resistance​

When exposed to air over time, copper and aluminum both undergo oxidation tarnishing. This can interfere with thermal transfer across mating surfaces.

Aluminum tends to corrode faster than copper, developing a fine-gray oxide layer. Copper oxidizes to form a greenish patina but at a slower rate.
With protective finishes, both can avoid discoloration. But untreated, copper retains its shiny luster and performance longer than aluminum.

Machinability​

Heatsinks require precise machining to create fins and grooves for optimal surface area. This depends on the metal’s hardness and brittleness.
Soft, ductile aluminum is easier to cut, drill, and tap compared to copper. This makes aluminum more amenable to mass production, lowering costs.

Harder copper is more difficult to machine and requires diamond tooling, increasing manufacturing expenses.

Cost​

Copper raw material costs are substantially higher than aluminum, roughly 2-3 times as much per kilogram.

This drives the prices of copper heatsinks much higher than equivalent aluminum models. However, copper’s superior longevity helps offset replacement costs.

For budget builds, aluminum provides adequate cooling at a fraction of the price. But for optimal performance, copper gives unbeatable thermal capabilities.

Understanding these fundamental properties allows matching the best heatsink metal to a specific computer build’s cooling needs and constraints. Both copper and aluminum have roles to play in thermal management.

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Interesting about the thermal capacity and the weight part, didnt really think of those two. but what I said about the ability to dissipate more with more surface area im still pretty sure is true because of the scale of a car radiator vs a computer heat sink/maybe even radiator for a computer too. a heat sink isnt flowing fluid through it (that I know of). also, with the future of coolants in the 90s going to things like dexcool, which use additives to create a protective surface internally on the aluminum to prevent wear and corrosion, that may have been part of it. if you used dexcool combined with a brass/copper radiator you would eat the solder joints away