1993 Yukon crate motor hydraulic roller lifter cleaning and adjustment journey - (Solved)

[scott2093]

What's weird is the lifter works perfect....but there is one sided scoring....can't feel it though..

Have I found my glitter gal?

 

[scott2093]

While you've got it all apart (again ), thoroughly clean and inspect the pushrods, if you haven't already, to ensure they can deliver oil properly to the rockers. (Sorry if you've done this and I missed it).

Edit: Check them for flatness as well using a piece of glass to roll them on.

Yes they were all good. And can see straight through them. Every one had shiny wear where they go through the head to the lifters.... You can make it out in that one pic a couple of posts back... guess that's normal?

 

[Road Trip]

What's weird is the lifter works perfect....but there is one sided scoring....can't feel it though..

Have I found my glitter gal?

What you have uncovered is definitely an artifact of some dirt or grit getting inbetween the cam
lobe and roller on the lifter. You can see this even on newer engines that have never been opened
up since coming off the assembly line. If you YouTube old engine foundry videos, and you see how
they used a mixture of sand & glue in order to make the 'cores' (which in turn give us the no metal
areas for bores, water jackets, intake & exhaust manifold interior passages, etc) ...you discover that
a freshly poured still-steaming engine block casting is chock full of sand.

As a matter of fact, what we call 'freeze plugs' are actually there to give the folks at the foundry a way
to facilitate getting the sand out of the water jacket area surrounding the cylinder bores. Any benefit
of a 'freeze plug' releasing the pressure caused by an illegal condition (ie: engine filled with pure water
below 32°F) ...is purely an unintended side benefit.

No doubt that they get 99.99% of the sand out the brand new castings before machining them, but
every so often a few stray grains will stay embedded in the cast iron pores, and only come loose once the
car is driven off the showroom floor. And if you're lucky, the oil filter bypass is closed when that little bit of
grit gets sucked up by the oil pump pickup, and gets trapped in the filter.

But if you are not so lucky, then if the bypass was open (due to excessive pressure drop across the filter)
...then that bit of grit is carried along by the oil & manages to either embed itself in the soft bearing material,
or happens to ricochet in between the spinning cam and roller lifter. And no kidding, that's exactly how that
scoring happens.

Or, the engine foundry got all the sand out of the casting, but the new owner didn't clean the
area around the engine oil fill area *before* he or she opened it, so the grit surrounding the fill port makes
it's way into the pristine insides. And the scoring cycle starts.

Or course, this is a remanufactured engine, so they had to clean all the previous fairy failure dust
out of the motor, remachine it, clean it again, and put it together. It's not much different than
keeping your CDs from skipping or keeping your old vinyl records pop & tick free -- it's all about
the cleanliness. :0)

****

I went through that long explanation for a reason. The point I'm trying to make is that you would be
surprised how many decent-running engines are out there with marks on machined surfaces from
FOD. (Foreign Object Damage.) In the aviation world there is a huge focus on FOD. And pro mechanics
doing work at your current level become fastidious when working with the spendy, close-tolerance bits
because there's no profit made while working on a 'come back'.

Now our fingertips are amazing transducers. We can feel the difference between a scored surface vs
a smooth machined surface. Believe it or not, when trying to give an engine every possible excuse to
run right for awhile longer, you can take a piece of 2000 grit sandpaper and some light lubricant (like
WD-40) and get that scored surface a light polishing. (Think polishing mom's crystal.) You aren't
trying to change the shape of the part -- instead, you are just trying to make a rubbing surface
a little friendlier for the part that it works with.

For example, if after cleaning I discovered a little scoring on the wall of a lifter bore, if I didn't like the
way it felt, then I would polish that area with the 2000-grit paper soaked in WD-40. And then
clean afterwards with the lacquer thinner. And oftentimes you can get it to feel a little better.
And if the lifter moves up & down in the bores just that much smoother, then in my mind it's a win.

Once upon a time you had to go to an Auto Body Supply store to purchase these ultra-fine grits,
but now I think I've actually seen 1500 / 2000 / 2500 & up in the larger Advance Auto stores?

By the way, for the longest time if you told me that I could take sandpaper to a smooth machined
surface inside an engine and make it even smoother, I would not have believed it. But I have
proved it to myself over the years. But since we're doing this remotely, I'd ask you to watch
this short video demonstrating that with the right technique and superfine sandpaper, you
can indeed give a piece of metal an ultra-smooth light reflecting (instead of light distorting)
mirror finish:

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Believe it or not, there is special tribe where the members only think about lubrication
between moving parts, and they refer to themselves as Tribologists. Seems that the
zen of lubrication is all about just how smooth you can make 2 interacting surfaces:

You must be registered for see images attach

(credit: Lehigh University website -- Deluxe rabbit hole entrance here)

****

So there you have it. Me? As it turns out, Smooth as a baby's behind is a laudable goal
inside an engine. Just like Clean enough to eat off of. When I was a kid the old guys
would say stuff like this, and I just figured that they had been stuffing their pipes with
too much spice or something.

But over the years I've come to understand where they were coming from. And now that
you have been messing with the dilithium crystals of a modern hydraulic lifter V8, I
think you have put yourself in the position to better appreciate the science of Tribology.

"That's all I've got to say about that." -- F. 'Road Trip' Gump

 

[Road Trip]

Yes they were all good. And can see straight through them. Every one had shiny wear where they go through the head to the lifters.... You can make it out in that one pic a couple of posts back... guess that's normal?

Yes, the pushrods get shiny where the slotted holes keep everything in proper alignment.
If it's visually shiny but there's no wear then it is a normal condition.

As for the cam wear vs the associated roller lifter wear, the rollers are harder than the cam
lobe it rides on. So if there's any debris this is the wear pecking order that you will observe.

I'd review the oil/filter change interval, with an eye towards having it changed more often.
(In an attempt to reduce the oil/glitter ratio in order to stretch the usable lifespan of the
engine.) All in all, everything you've shown is in better condition than I had hoped.

By the way, I think you wrote that the cleaned lifters pumped up with oil the same? If so,
that's a good sign.

Best of luck with your journey.

 

[scott2093]

in order to stretch the usable lifespan of the
engine.

This seems to be the main theme...

I keep telling my son 1 day this will be yours...He's not a fan of it..yet....
I think the sticky ish acceleration freaks him out.... I need to address that one day....

That and it's gutted for working out of with it's dreams of being returned to it's former glory scattered around in the attic.
She's still good from far though....

I can't figure out how guys can show up to jobs in 60k trucks . It's hard enough for me these days to make enough money without a truck payment. Maybe trade work wasn't the best move in hindsight. But landscaping was my other toss up and I'm sure I'd be saying the same thing...times have changed...

Should have went into the Air Force when I had the chance. My recruiter wasn't happy at all when I backed out. In Tampa at the MEPS center after all my testing no less. And he drove me there... oh well...
I always wanted to be an officer anyway. A pilot of course...But browsing the academy brochure and 5 years in the Civil Air Patrol as a kid wasn't enough... Pretending the stripped out Yukon is some kind of beat up road helicopter with all it's creaks and noises is enough for now...

So I want to get this sealant for the intake right. I don't like that area where the china wall meets the head. Last time I put sealant on top of the gasket at that joint like the manual says . I'm pretty sure that's what it says. But I'm fairly certain that's where my issues were. Doesn't seem like a gasket can bend in that joint to seal enough...? But idk... I also went around the coolant passages with a super thin layer...
Any advice on the best way to do this?
It's pretty all over the place when reading.

Hopefully can close this thread with something relevant like... hey there's no smoke coming out of the tail pipe...
Thanks!

 

[scott2093]

So, since the intake is off and I have access to some different areas to peak with the scope, which I guess is pretty useful and recommend for $30, is there some sure fire way to find #1 TDC compression so I can set/mark it and know?
I'm guessing the holes in the valley are the intake lobes of the cam? Figured I'd run through and look...Neat..
Can see a bit of the timing chain up front on either side as well...

Just want to take advantage while it's open... No project creep.... I've already searched holes.... Definitely need to clean my ears.....

but, regardless of scope or not, is there a best way to find tdc while it's all open...?

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

is there some sure fire way to find #1 TDC compression so I can set/mark it and know?

Looking at the engine from the front, rotate the crank until you see the #1 intake valve close (the 2nd valve). Then continue rotating until you see the timing mark on the harmonic balancer. Line it up with the indicator and you SHOULD be at TDC.

if you stick a wire in the #1 spark plug hole, you can get close when the piston stops coming up.

Otherwise you'll need a dial indicator with the heads off to be most accurate.

With a cam degree wheel and dial indicator you can do it too.

 

[scott2093]

Thanks... Yeah that's usually how I do it by watching the valves. Just wasn't sure if my aftermarket balancer was still good or not. I did the spark plug stop in the past but it made me a little nervous and I can't find it anyway..
Was curious if a peek in one of the bores in the valley would show some kind of action when things were at tdc...

 

[scott2093]

Jeez...Trying to get this thing going and , don't know what I'm doing wrong and don't want to mess something up.
Had everything ready to fire up and test this morning. Distributor all set up at #1 tdc compression I'm sure...but ...

Fired the truck up...Heard scary light knocking sounds... Maybe it was diesel sounds....shut it down after a couple of seconds....
truck had been through the lifter cleanings and all that so I figured maybe it was getting settled in... Fired it up again....
Lots of clattering...All lifters were noisy.... Truck was running ok though..... I walked around and listened.... I'm not sure I would say they were all clacking but really loud ticking?..

Turned it off. I had done 1/4 turn past zero lash using Schurkey's method. I mean, everything looked about where I thought it should be after finding zero lash and adding a quarter turn. That's where I had it before starting the project and it actually fired up noise free right before I committed to going in....

So I gave everything another quarter turn. Started truck and it was quieter... Was walking around listening where noises were and truck idled down a bit. I assumed it was going into closed loop but temp didn't seem high enough but I didn't have scanner hooked up.

So I shut truck off to set timing. Unplugged timing connector and fired truck up..... ran a little rough but I expected it a little...looked at timing and it was maybe 10 degrees advanced.... ..I went to turn distributor and turned wrong way and advanced it more....Truck sounded good...idled higher..woke up..... but I went back the other way to set to 0 and when I got to zero, the truck died...Now it won't start....

well, if I advance it a little it'll start....and lifters were getting quiet....but as soon as I turn distributor it'll die..

I've checked distributor and made sure I was on tdc #1 compression and the rotor is pointing to number 1 plug on the cap as far as I can tell....

I've heard of people setting in distributor 180 off but don't know what that looks like... I assume the rotor would not be pointing to number 1?
Tempted to shift wires 1 over but it really doesn't look right...
I'm tired so maybe I'm missing something obvious....

Obviously a little cautious because of all the lifters being cleaned and all....

hmm... sound like I'm off on the cap?

The last time I tried starting, I got cranking and then a little backfire out of the throttle body... Nothing big...Just a little pss...

Going to look again but I'm pretty sure it's going to be sitting at # 1 when I get tdc compression again....

is it possible that, because I started at tdc compression when doing Schurkey's method of zero lash, that I rotated 180 degrees to finish and forgot to put another 180 to get back to compression #1 ?

 

[scott2093]

just tried moving plug wires starting #1 at #6 and so on... Wouldn't start...Little backfire through throttle body....
hmm..

Something I'm not seeing ..