4l80e swap thread... Again...

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Astro

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Hello guys,

Just blew up my 4l60 on my 96 k1500 and was thinking of swapping to the 4l80. I have a 411 pcm installed already. Repinned it myself.

What all do I need to do to swap it? Do I need to change drive shaft lengths for front and back?

I keep finding conflicting info so it's a little confusing.

Who has actually done it and had the 411 already?

Thanks for any help.

-Astro
 

NickTransmissions

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Hello guys,

Just blew up my 4l60 on my 96 k1500 and was thinking of swapping to the 4l80. I have a 411 pcm installed already. Repinned it myself.

What all do I need to do to swap it? Do I need to change drive shaft lengths for front and back?

I keep finding conflicting info so it's a little confusing.

Who has actually done it and had the 411 already?

Thanks for any help.

-Astro

The following must be done:

- Segment Swap to the ECM so it can control the 80; can be done via HP Tuners
- Wiring harness adaptor for the dual speed sensor set up
- Cross member relocation (specialized cross members are available specifically for these swaps given they're so common)
- Shorten/Rebalance primary drive shaft (4x4s - may require similar work to the secondary drive shaft)

Swapping to the 80 is really only worth it if you're modding the engine for significantly more power...Otherwise, figure to lose appx 10-15% more crank horsepower to the transmission when compared to the 60...additionally, figure in some transmission work if you're purchasing the 80 from a junkyard (almost none of them are actually ready to be installed - most need a refresh at minimum).

> Are you upgrading your engine? If so how much more power will it be making?

> What happend to your 4L60E?
 

Astro

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Hey Nick, thanks for the quick response!

I blew up the 60 last weekend. Clutches got burned up while I was cruising along the freeway at a good 85mph.

I'm not running a lot of power at the moment, but I plan on running around 450 at some point.

I am, however, running 35's, which I suspect had something to do with it's demise lol.
 

NickTransmissions

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Hey Nick, thanks for the quick response!

I blew up the 60 last weekend. Clutches got burned up while I was cruising along the freeway at a good 85mph.

I'm not running a lot of power at the moment, but I plan on running around 450 at some point.

I am, however, running 35's, which I suspect had something to do with it's demise lol.
Sounds like 3-4 pack went out - 90% of all 4L60Es come in for rebuild for that reason...

What is your final drive ratio in your differentials? If it's anything less than 4.56 then you'll burn up the 4L80e's OD clutch pack faster than that of the 60 as you won't have enough mechanical leverage to generate the required line pressure rise in the transmission to keep those clutch packs clamped.

The 60 should be rebuilt and can easily handle 450 HP if done so correctly...In stock form, they're relatively weak but with a few choice parts and mods, they can handle 450+ HP / 450 TQ no problem...Also consider it cost another 25-40% to rebuild a 4L80 compared to rebuilding your 4L60E...

Bottom line - don't do anything with the transmission before you address your gear ratio if your differentials are not set up for the 35s...
 

Astro

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Hey Nick, the diffs are stock as far as I know. I have a 14 bolt in the rear, which is kinda rare for a 1500.

I wanted to get the 60 rebuilt with heavy duty internals and was thinking of a small stall (1800-2300), but haven't found anything affordable.

Interestingly enough, all the local shops wanted an arm and a leg even when compared to Monster Transmission.
 

Astro

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I'm in Texas and rarely drive slower than 80-85 while in overdrive. That's about 2400rpm. Is that enough? Or is there a better pump that could be used in the tranny? Thanks for all the info btw man. Much appreciated.
 

NickTransmissions

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Hey Nick, the diffs are stock as far as I know. I have a 14 bolt in the rear, which is kinda rare for a 1500. Can the 1st year in the tranny be made shorter instead?

I wanted to get the 60 rebuilt with heavy duty internals and was thinking of a small stall (1800-2300), but haven't found anything affordable.

Interestingly enough, all the local shops wanted an arm and a leg even when compared to Monster Transmission.
If the stock gearing is like 3:23 or 3:42, 3.73, you'll need to upgrade....Someone may have swapped it in prior to you owning or perhaps it was an option for that year/model...

For the 4L60E, I'd do the following (either you or your builder):

Converter Stall - Keep factory or at most 2200 - any more, you'll likely build too much heat to manage given the heavy vehicle plus once you go above 2200 RPMs you'll need to drop down to an 11" diameter which will triple/quadruple the cost of the converter.

Valve Body (cost ~30)
- Drop-in AFL Valve from Central Valve Bodies - replaces worn factory valve for improved line pressure management for all clutch packs and band/servo
- Dual spring in the AFL valve - increases AFL pressure to your solenoids for more consistent application circuit function (i.e. more clamping force to your clutch packs and band/servo)
- Block the TCC Regulator valve inboard to convert your PWM TCC apply to on-off - reduces heat and increases convert clutch life
- Block the 3-2 downshift valve inboard with a slug - take the spring and insert it inside the main AFL valve spring - crispens up 3-2 downshift at high RPMs
- Sonnax pinless forward accumulator

Accumulators (cost ~$35)
1-2 Accumulator - Install Sonnax pin-less accumulator
3-4 Accumulator - take your existing piston, grind off 1/3 of the legs then insert it upside down in the bore (leave perimeter seal off) then install new piston right side up, mesh the legs (install new seal) - that will block that accumulator 90% and give you a crisp, positive 3-4 shift

Spacer Plate / Check Balls (cost ~$10 if plate repair kit is needed)
-Drill out the 2-3 and 3-4 shift feeds to .093-.100; drill the 1-2 to .076-.080; drill the 2-3 exhaust to .093
- Repair the 1-2 check ball location using the Fitzall repair sleeve kit - install torlon check balls

Servo (cost ~$250 if both 2nd and 4th gear servo kits are purchased)
- 2nd Gear: Install a billet Sonnax Super Hold Servo kit (includes billet steel apply pin) or Superior Technologies billet servo
- 4th Gear: Sonnax super hold 4th gear apply servo kit

Pump (~$150)
- Remachine pump - install new pump internals, including rotor, slide, rotor guide, vanes
- Install Transgo's unbreakable pump ring kit for vehicles revving under 5000 RPMs - comes with ductile iron rings and improved priming spring for the slide
- Drill the drain back port in the pump body to 5/16" and install a Sonnax teflon coated bushing
- Install a teflon coated rear stator bushing as well

Band (~$60)
-Install an Alto wide red band for more clamping surface coverage on your reverse input drum - turn the drum to remove any warpage before installing the band

Forward Drum (~$100)
- Install 97+ bonded steel/rubber pistons w/updated return spring assembly for the forward clutch
- Do an Alto, Raybestos or Borg Warner max pack for the 3-4 clutch - set clearance at .030-.045 - leave load release springs in if clearance is below .040
- Install Transgo's high rate return spring kit for crispter downshifts as well as to mitigate the likelihood of centrifugal apply at very high RPMs

Sun Shell ($125)
- Install Sonnax Smart Shell

Sun Gears
- Cut small grooves on the top and bottom of rear sun gear and planet-facing side of forward sun gear to allow more lube oil to flow to captured bearings and pinion gears in the planetary carriers

GM OEM Five-Pinion Planetary carriers (front and rear) - Optional (~$400-500)
 

Astro

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I do have 373's in the back. Maybe I'll just drive around in 3rd gear at lower speeds. Hell could you rebuild it?
 

NickTransmissions

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I do have 373's in the back. Maybe I'll just drive around in 3rd gear at lower speeds. Hell could you rebuild it?
I certainly could except for the fact I'm in Vegas and don't do shipping state to state simply due to cost, logistical considerations and dealing with any instances where the transmission would have to come back to me due to either latent parts defect or workmanship problems (i.e. under warranty).

Id be glad to help you if you decided to tackle the job yourself - you would need to invest in some tooling to get up and running (i.e. bench/holding fixture, clutch spring compressor(s), shop press, bushing driver set, snap ring pliers, air compressor w/rubber tip nozzle, sealing ring expander and sizer for the input shaft sealing rings, sizer for the pump's teflon sealing rings, dial indicator w/base to measure clutch clearance and end play.

That plus the time to learn but you could always mitigate the risk by buying a core of the same vintage and working on that instead of yours then doing the swap whenever you're ready.
 

L31MaxExpress

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My 4L85E is holding up just fine at ~1,700 @ 55 mph and ~2,500 @ 80 behind a 383 making 450 ft/lbs at that rpm pulling around a 7,000 lbs van. The gearing is not the problem, the 4L60E being a POS is! My POS 60E and 65E went out in my OE 3.42 geared van twice in 78K miles. The OE 60E lasted 38K miles behind the stock 350. I threw it in the scrap pile, put a 110K mile junkyard 4L85E and have not looked back. The 4L80E in my Tahoe held up to the 8.1L with 3.42s and 32" tall tires as well. Crusing RPM was like 1,850 @ 75 mph.
 
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