HELP need a bigger oil pan SBC

[L31MaxExpress]

I have not seen a small block pan interfere with a big block pump, provide the correct pickup is on the pump. The SBC windage tray needs slight clearencing around the pump mounting bolt area but it can be used with minimal modification.

 

[BOOT]

Since my $150 350 came with a holey pan, this is currently in my shopping cart at Summit, along with a Melling M77. It has a 7 quart capacity.

Weiand 5003WND Weiand Oil Pan Packages | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Weiand Oil Pan Packages with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Oil Pans at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

Use to be cheaper(seen em low as $140) but Competition Products has some decent oil pan kits. Bought the T-sump pan kit about a year ago for $150 to use with my project truck.

Link to their page

Chevrolet SB Oil Pan Kits-Competition Products

 

[PlayingWithTBI]

The SBC windage tray needs slight clearencing around the pump mounting bolt area but it can be used with minimal modification.

Yep, a decent pair of tin snips and the ARP stud set for it.

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[racprops]

I will be running the larger model:

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[racprops]

Darn somehow I was NOT getting notices of all these posts, and as I was not I thought no one was posting…

Instead I missed all of your posts.

So I will try to respond to most of them.

Back in the 80s I was a movie Prop maker in Hollywood, it was as with actors spotty work, all ways looking for the next job and a big break…and as actors will do to survive by parking cars and waiting on tables, I drove all over the country selling my prop recreations at conventions. Ofter once a month.

I put a lot of miles on a poor 74 Chevy Van G20 with a stock 350/TH350 3.43 rear end. Haft way through the 80s I wore out the TH350 and we put in a Cadillac Switch Pitch TH400.

Even back then with the cheap gas I often barely made it home, gas money was tight.

I tried a couple of things, I made sure I had a SMALL Primary Quad and even trying a set of smaller primary jets and fatter metering rods and I drove with a vacuum gauge and KNEW that at 12 to 10 INCHES the metering rods were full out and that I was running on just the jets. (kiss any MPG Goodby)

I also got a Water injector but it was mainly for knocking and dieseling and nothing could change the 12 to 13MPG I was getting…I did like how she could climb the monster hill on I10 just east of Indio CA, she could hold her speed of 70/75 all the way up and not over heat even in the hottest time of the year with the A/C at full blast. And even recover that speed after being cut off by a slow big rig.

It seemed every SBC 350 I have owned have valve seals problems…it got to the point a trip anywhere would been a change of plugs, so I carried three to four sets, and had my own sand blaster plug cleaner and will clean them once back at the shop.

And IF we dare try rebuilding them they always have a cylinder ridge and always need a bore job and new pistons…

DO you know that a Cadillac and OLDS 350/403 NORMALLY do not get cylinder ridges and do not need a bore job and new pistons?? If not look it up…it was true then.

When the SBC 350 got so tired of them I swapped in a OLDS 350. No change in power and MPG.

And sadly it lost a rocker stud on a trip.

As my buddy with the junk yard (The source of all my used engines and transmissions and he rebuilt the TH400 with every heavy duty part and clutch pack…) was out of used OLDS 350s from swapping them in to replace the crappy OLDS Diesels, offered me a OLDS 305, and both of us thought: Evenyone saids bigger engines take more gas and smaller engine are better on MPG SO…

I dropped the 305 in….OMG what a BIG MISTAKE that was…major loss of power and her major drinking problem was worst.

And now instead of going up hills at 75MPH I was forced to run in 2nd gear and the Big Rigs hated me.

So if a 305 was the wrong way (we figured it was a power to weight problem) then a larger engine was indicated, and the SBC 400 was considered Junk, I started building an OLDS 403.

This was late 90s and I was searching the internet of tips on making better MPG when I found ThirdGen.org and Lean Burn Cruse like this current post: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/dfi-ecm/782477-ebl-lean-cruise-questions.html

I found a thread where they were in a bragging contest with Camaro owners down under, and it was neck and neck until the Aussies said…OK we get 30/35MPG…all hell broke loose then.

First proof of that for reals…then pages of trying to find out how they got 30/35 to our 20/25MPG.

It turned out to be a hidden feature of those old TPI PCMs which they names Lean Burn Cruse which was it did. And it could be turned on here as well.

I sold the OLDS403 and got three TPI setups and started leaning all I could on them.

SO yes I have been working on the project for over 25 years.

And in 2002 I started building my now SBC 350 for that 78 G20.

BUT swapping in a Computer TPI into an old van that was running carb was a major undertaking…and I was still working on it when I REALLY NEEDED a Running Van…SO I bought my Star Craft 93 Chevy G20 in 2004 with a Fuel Injected (TBI) and a 4L60E transmission WITH over drive…And a small improvement from 12MPG to 16MPG… So a slightly less drinking problem.

And AS EVERY SBC I have owned up until this one had needed an engine in a short time I keep researching how to build my soon to be needed engine, thus all the posts over the years…

So because of less driving and how much better this engine seemed to be even at 135K she was still running too damn good to take out and go for the newer MPG engine…until an Oil Line to a add on oil cooler failed and froze the engine 4 years ago was I now needing that engine.

So I dug her out of storage and started building her again and Covid hit and it has taken these three years to nearly be ready to drop her in.

End of part one:

 

[racprops]

Part two:

I did a number of LONG Road Trips with this 93 Custom van and even on the first trip I was amazed by a CRAZY thing…passing Big Rigs:

I noted few commented on a Van with a higher roof and MPG..well:

I have read and hear that statement over and over about Vans and Trucks.

If that was true then it would be impossible for that tall non-Aerodynamic Heavier 2019 Express van powered by a Gasoline 4.3 V6 even with all the super tech and a 8 speed with its final gear ratio of .65 into 3.42 Would be running about 1400RPMs @ 55MPH and 1600 @ 65MPH.

So we have a heavier, less areo Express Van underpowered with a baby engine with nearly the gears and Low RPMs I am shooting for getting a EPA rating of 19MPG City and 29MPG Highway.

HOW did that happen??

As for my 93 G20:

About the not being blown off the roads, and of Aerodynamics:

I bought my 93 Star Craft Custom Van after having stock Chevy vans for decades (1978 till around 2005 when I bought the 93,) I was concerned that with the raised roof and side ground effects would make winds worst for driving.

I drove a 74 Chevy van full time during the 80s and crossed the US on many times, in the 90s and into the 2000s it was then a 78 van. Again we did a lot of road trips all over.

I was VERY used to fighting for control with cross winds and when passing or being passed by BIG RIGS. The bow wake of air would buffer and push my vans all over the road; I am sure near every Van owner knows what I am talking about.

My first road trip showed me that was NOT a problem. Cruising at 75 MPH I was over taking a Big Rig and I braced for the fight as I over took the cab…and..and WTF no fight, I breezed by this big truck….

Must have been a trick cross wind that stopped the bow wake of the big rig, BUT it happened again and again, almost no effects of passing trucks, and even when I was over took by even faster big rigs.

OMG The stream lining ground effects of the Star Craft panels which I loved for their LOOKS really works. I have had the van for 15 years now and LOVE this effect.

I believe these ground effects keep air from under the van and I believe this nearly stops the effects of bow wakes and losers the effects of cross wind on my G20 van.

But there seems to be a catch, as far as I have been able to learn this ONLY works with the old Star Craft costume vans, the newer look alike vans are not close enough to the ground for this to work.

Also I know big rigs do everything to help their MPG, and my van looks a lot like most newer rigs, and I see deflectors on the trailers that seem to cut air from under the trailers as well.

They would not add anything that did not work.

As these only came on these old van and many people really are not interested in completely rebuilding an old van my best suggestion is to either lower the newer vans or add to the front air dam and side skirting to get this effect.

SO I feel this is a very aerodynamic.

End part two

 

[racprops]

Part three:

Will second overdrive work?

Running all fractures thought the rpm and gearing calculator at https://www.blocklayer.com/rpm-gear.aspx

I find that adding a second overdrive can greatly lower the engines running RPMs.

This calculator shows dynamic RPM reduction with a second .70 OD.

Gear Venders is still selling such a add on Overdrive.

To test what COULD happen with such a set up:

An fairly empty I 17 Freeway Sunday Morning at 3 am.

Speeds, RPMs and MPG 03 Ford Explorer with Stock 3.73 Rear end.

MPG testing with a newly Upgrade Scan Gauge II, using trip MPG readings.

1AM I17 North from Cactus to 101 and south 101 to Cactus Temp 70Degrees

Two runs each way. No wind. Engine fully warmed up and running 190 degress.

1480RPMs = 49MPH in 5th = Stock 19/21MPG + DOD = 70MPH = 29MPG

1800RPMs = 59MPH in 5th = Stock 16/18MPG + DOD = 85MPH = 26MPG

Due to traffic I only got these lowest and highest readings:

The+ Double Over Drive numbers are only calculations at this time.

Of course these projections do not, cannot show what effects wind and rolling resistion will be and how they will affect the real world MPG. But I believe it will only be minor.+/- 1to 4 MPG.

All of four cars I have tested this low RPM on:

2002 Ford Explorer 4.0 V6 5 Speed and 3.73 Read gears, same MPG as per 03 Explorer.

03 Crown Vic 4.6 V8 40/50 More HP than 2000 Mercury, same Transmission and 3.27 Rear end. 25MPG at 1700RPMs at 65MPH.

ALL of the cars and trucks have plenty of power and will speed up without any downshifting to a light throttle input.

NONE show any lugging.

The 03 will gladly and AUTOMATICALLY shift into 5th OD and cruse at 1000 happly…

 

[tayto]

racprops you should split your project into smaller bites. for starters tuning your current setup would net you better milage, power and drivibility. the big advantage of your current setup is tuning shift points. also, there is a pseudo way to do lean burn on your PCM. i would then swap in the 4L80E. you will need to PCM swap (7427 or 6395) and run another set of speed sensor wires to transmission. these vans came with 4L80Es so I would find a harness out of one. The same PCM can run a TPI setup in batch fire. This would be my next step swapping a TPI setup onto your existing engine. you will be in for heartache IF you try swapping this all at once.

 

[racprops]

Part four:

I am very aware of the fine line between the correct torque range and lugging an engine. These are my starting point for testing.

I was very involved with improving MPG the last time gas prices were getting to the $4.00 per…

I tried HHO, special tuners called interrupt between the PCM and its sensors trying to fool the car to use less fuel. And a few other odd MPG devices.

The only thing I found that worked on my 2000 Merc GM was leaning the A/F ratio to 16:4, on that car on the highway I was able to get 35MPG @ 65MPH, but as I could not make the switch to a lean burn and back to normal it had a major loss of power.

I did discover a few interesting things with that 2000 Mercury with a 4.6 (281CI) V8 and a 4 speed with OD and a stock 343 rear end.

First it would get 30MPG at 65MPH at 1700RPMs, every time tested.

I also discovered that even with overhead cams she was not able to run over 5500 RPMs!!

SO how does it get such great MPG????

All the ungraded stuff does not quite show and changes that can add say 5 MPG…

It DOES run Ford’s version of a Turn Port Intake…much like the Camaros Did.

So it is my thinking that the 85+ Camaro style TPI was/is the best for a MPG engine…WHY because It and the TBI 193 Heads all were tuned for the best most torque at LOW RPMs at around 2000 to 5000RPMs and that is shown by the FACT that both will not run higher.

Every speed shop has had a fit over these parts, to them they are ALL WRONG….

And every newer V8 SBC has mover their power curve upward to higher RPMS and MORE torque and HP…and NO real improvement in MPG.

I believe a special engine tuned with these parts LEFT STOCK will produce the best MPG at highway speeds running at around 1500RPMS with a second overdrive allowing highway speeds of around 75/80MPH.

Everything I have read points to this.

This is the best I can do and plan with the vans current stock 3.42 rear end gears. There is the possibility that my engine may make great torque at 1000RPMs, but I am not counting on it. The ideal is to gear everything at the engines torque peak, under or over by much and she will start drinking.

SO you cannot gear a stock engine with a torque peak of 2800/3000 to pull at 1500RPMs and get good MPG. So I am building an engine that peak at 2000 RPM and gear close to that.

This RPM does seem as low as you can safely go, Engine oil pressure needs 1500 and up and I am told this is also true for most automatic transmissions.

Once it is built I will do as careful testing at all available speeds, RPMs with all the gears I have to test. THEN as I have a howling rear end will then rebuild it with what will seem to be the best gear ratio, with a range of 2.73 to 4.11 I can choose a gear that may be ideal.

So I start with a best build I can do, a 383, 9.5 compression, everything built for MPG, ceramic coated heads and pistons, telfon coated pistons skirts, Rhoads Roller lifters giving me a variable cam, a cam selected to allow a torque peak at 2000, but thanks to the lifters will then turn into a power engine at 2500 to its max RPMS of 5000RPMs, fed by a 1987 Chevy TPI intake system.

Then to add to all of that I have a chip for the PCM to engage Lean Burn Mode which in the 80s Camaros allow them to go from 20/25 TO 30/35MPG.

So as this van avenged 15MPG I can fairly count on getting 5MPG with a Second overdrive and add 5 more MPG with lean burn, so I feel a real world of 25MPG in a G20 Van is very real.

 

[racprops]

Part Five:

Lastly I want a good all-around van.

This is why I am going with an ex-RV 4L80e…yes I may lose a MPG or two, but I feel it will hold up longer and with it I can tow a trailer.

One major delay on building this van was my finding a NOS US Gear Dual Range Over Drive…it was NOS as it was sold to fit a TH400/4L80s but came splined for a Ford C6and a Dodge Adapter. I also got the 4L80e from the same person.

One feature will be I can TOW with these transmissions, run the 4L80 in Third but in the Dual Range IN OD...it will be like towing is the 4L80 in 4th.

I then made up a way to join the two.

Here are the two bolted together. And some details on the build.