1995 Tbi 350. Runs for 30 seconds then dies. Feels rough.

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Noah1167

Newbie
Joined
Oct 2, 2023
Messages
9
Reaction score
5
Location
Pennsylvania
Alright let me get to the point. Every sensor on the engine has been replaced. Fuel injectors replaced. Fuel pump. consistent 13psi from pump to TBI. Took every ground out and cleaned and replaced. Replaced wiring pigtails for any connector that looks rough/broken or had corrosion in pins. Now i have been messing with this truck to try and get it to run right. I have a little auto store OBD1 scanner these are the codes i have been getting.
15: Coolant temp sensor or circuit fault - signal voltage high.
22: Throttle POS - signal voltage is high.
34: MAP sensor - signal voltage is low during ignition on.
42: Electronic spark timing EST circuit - open or shorted.
67: Cruise control - switch circuit problems.

I have checked the ground in front of the engine that most these sensors use ( to my understanding ) and it checked all good.

If you can give me a step forward for troubleshooting it would be appreciated. TBI will be the death of me.
 

Drunkcanuk

I'm Awesome
Joined
Jul 22, 2021
Messages
1,825
Reaction score
5,050
Location
Alberta, Canada
Alright let me get to the point. Every sensor on the engine has been replaced. Fuel injectors replaced. Fuel pump. consistent 13psi from pump to TBI. Took every ground out and cleaned and replaced. Replaced wiring pigtails for any connector that looks rough/broken or had corrosion in pins. Now i have been messing with this truck to try and get it to run right. I have a little auto store OBD1 scanner these are the codes i have been getting.
15: Coolant temp sensor or circuit fault - signal voltage high.
22: Throttle POS - signal voltage is high.
34: MAP sensor - signal voltage is low during ignition on.
42: Electronic spark timing EST circuit - open or shorted.
67: Cruise control - switch circuit problems.

I have checked the ground in front of the engine that most these sensors use ( to my understanding ) and it checked all good.

If you can give me a step forward for troubleshooting it would be appreciated. TBI will be the death of me.
I completely understand your frustration!!! But don't give up!!!
Some thoughts.
Are you SHURE the replacement sensors are any good? Been known that new doesn't equal good.
So what brands did you replace them with?

I think there are "values" for the sensors in the factory service manuals that you can download in the sticky under the engine and performance section.
I would check them with a good multimeter to see what readings you get. I'm sure the FSM will be able to tell you what/how to test for each code you are getting.
The coolant temperature sensor seems to be a tricky one that gets everything all messed up and running like crap.
I'm sure someone smarter than myself will be along to pass on more/better advice.
 

someotherguy

Truly Awesome
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
10,037
Reaction score
14,819
Location
Houston TX
Alright let me get to the point. Every sensor on the engine has been replaced. Fuel injectors replaced. Fuel pump. consistent 13psi from pump to TBI. Took every ground out and cleaned and replaced. Replaced wiring pigtails for any connector that looks rough/broken or had corrosion in pins. Now i have been messing with this truck to try and get it to run right. I have a little auto store OBD1 scanner these are the codes i have been getting.
15: Coolant temp sensor or circuit fault - signal voltage high.
22: Throttle POS - signal voltage is high.
34: MAP sensor - signal voltage is low during ignition on.
42: Electronic spark timing EST circuit - open or shorted.
67: Cruise control - switch circuit problems.

I have checked the ground in front of the engine that most these sensors use ( to my understanding ) and it checked all good.

If you can give me a step forward for troubleshooting it would be appreciated. TBI will be the death of me.
With that big list of codes, which really isn't common in most scenarios, I'd have to figure you likely have a wiring harness issue (or issues) to deal with. When you say "all the grounds" which grounds, specifically? There may be more than you think.

Did you do all the work you listed in an attempt to solve these issues or did they crop up after something else was done? Give us some more history and info on the truck please.

Richard
 

Noah1167

Newbie
Joined
Oct 2, 2023
Messages
9
Reaction score
5
Location
Pennsylvania
With that big list of codes, which really isn't common in most scenarios, I'd have to figure you likely have a wiring harness issue (or issues) to deal with. When you say "all the grounds" which grounds, specifically? There may be more than you think.

Did you do all the work you listed in an attempt to solve these issues or did they crop up after something else was done? Give us some more history and info on the truck please.

Richard
I did all the work. The truck was bought over a year ago. Ran horribly due to a bolt logged in a valve seat. Fun times. Two new replacement heads. In that time. Bought every sensor. Fuel injectors also. All from autozone. Most of these duralast brand and fuel injectors not sure.

For grounds. All the ones I replaced where the ones pertaining to an engine wiring diagram in one of those old service books. If I can find a picture I’ll post it
 

hatzie

I'm Awesome
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
108
Reaction score
158
Location
New Hampshire
Hopefully you kept the GM stuff you replaced with Chinesium. All or most of them were likely just fine.
Always Always Always test before throwing parts at it. Chinesium parts usually make things worse not better.

First thing to do is look at what wiring and grounds those sensors share and start looking for corrosion, shorts, and damage.
 

Road Trip

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2023
Messages
1,117
Reaction score
3,185
Location
Syracuse, NY
Alright let me get to the point. Every sensor on the engine has been replaced. Fuel injectors replaced. Fuel pump. consistent 13psi from pump to TBI. Took every ground out and cleaned and replaced. Replaced wiring pigtails for any connector that looks rough/broken or had corrosion in pins. Now i have been messing with this truck to try and get it to run right. I have a little auto store OBD1 scanner these are the codes i have been getting.
15: Coolant temp sensor or circuit fault - signal voltage high.
22: Throttle POS - signal voltage is high.
34: MAP sensor - signal voltage is low during ignition on.
42: Electronic spark timing EST circuit - open or shorted.
67: Cruise control - switch circuit problems.

I have checked the ground in front of the engine that most these sensors use ( to my understanding ) and it checked all good.

If you can give me a step forward for troubleshooting it would be appreciated. TBI will be the death of me.

As mentioned earlier, at first glance, for the top 4 codes you either have 4 open wires in a
wounded harness, -or- for whatever reason the ECM and the engine do not share a common
ground plane, causing all 4 signals above to read open, even though the individual wires in the
harness are actually good?

If we can figure out a way to use one of the sensors to prove/disprove itself, and THEN see if that
same measurement is present at the ECM (with and without moving the multimeter's ground lead) then we
can prove/disprove the wiring harness theory for at least one signal...and give us a hint about the
other sensor errors?


****

So as not to make this too long to read, here is what I propose to do as a quick first pass to figure
out which way to go, using the Code 15 failure, where we can set a baseline using just an ohmmeter.

1) On a cold engine that is resting at ambient temperature, use an ohmmeter to measure the
resistance of the
Engine Coolant Temp sensor. Write it down, and compare it to the temperature/resistance
table on the 2nd attached page. Q: Does the resistance reading translate to within 5° of the actual
ambient temp? Let's assume Yes, and on to step #2.

2) Referencing the first attached page, go to the ECM pin/cavity C10 and see if you get the same reading?
NOTE: Make the first reading with the ohmmeter's ground lead in the same spot as when you first tested
the sensor in step #1. Same reading? Now move the ground lead to the ECM and repeat your measurement.

IF the reading is now open (old infinity, now 'OL') then we have a ground issue.

To recap, the 3 possibilities are:

1) Sensor fails check. Either internal open or shifted calibration. Replace sensor and retest. (Sensor as perpetrator.)
2) Sensor measurement passes check at sensor pins. But different measurement on ECM side of harness. (Sensor as victim.)
Find/Fix harness open, then retest. (DTC 15 = open. DTC 14 = short.)
3) Sensor and signal wire good. But after moving ground lead from engine to computer ground signal now out of range.
Fix ground between engine & ECM & retest.

****

Once we get this straightforward/linear/common sense sensor to communicate properly with the ECM, then this will at
least give us a solid spot from which to start troubleshooting the other sensors.

IMPORTANT NOTE: There are a some failures that we can can use DTC codes and a multimeter
to troubleshoot with. On the other hand, a DC multimeter is useless on something like the O2
sensors toggling in real time. When you start to hear that you need to see the 'live data' in order
to proceed, you really will need to do so.

But at this time you have so many codes kicking that I'm hoping that it's a single global error that we
can find, and it will fix most of what's on your plate.

One last thing. We recently troubleshot a no-start/barely-start condition back to an actual failed
ECT sensor. If you would like to see how that played out, go over here and read through this
thread: "Truck won't start, need suggestions"

To summarize, I picked the easiest sensor to measure/fix. My hope is that the underlying problem
identified by this fix will take care of the majority of the remaining codes. (Assuming that the other
new parts meet specification.)

Let us know what you discover.

Best of luck keeping another GMT400 on the road.

Cheers --
 

Attachments

  • '95 DTC code 15 ECT sensor (p1of2).jpg
    '95 DTC code 15 ECT sensor (p1of2).jpg
    119.4 KB · Views: 6
  • '95 DTC 15 temp vs resistance chart (p2of2)1995_GM_CK_TRUCK_DRIVABILITY_EMISSIONS_AND_WIRING_D...jpg
    '95 DTC 15 temp vs resistance chart (p2of2)1995_GM_CK_TRUCK_DRIVABILITY_EMISSIONS_AND_WIRING_D...jpg
    107 KB · Views: 6
Last edited:

john galt

Newbie
Joined
Mar 12, 2024
Messages
1
Reaction score
1
Location
corner of no and where
the only other thing i have not seen mentioned is the actual ecm failing it is rare but it does happen and cause all kinds of codes and wild goose chases. good luck man im chasing trans problems on mine that mare making me pull my hair out
 

Schurkey

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
11,225
Reaction score
14,189
Location
The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands
Every sensor on the engine has been replaced.
Means NOTHING. Cheap replacement parts may be worse than the OEM parts you removed. And you can replace the sensor a hundred times and not fix the problem if the problem is a broken wire or corroded connection in the wire harness going back to the computer.

How about cap, rotor, plug wires, spark plugs, PCV valve? Have you verified the initial timing, electronic spark advance, charcoal canister/evap system, EGR system, AIR system (if used.)

Have you looked at the magnet on the distributor mainshaft? Common for them to crack, generally where they're riveted.
You must be registered for see images attach


You must be registered for see images attach


I have a little auto store OBD1 scanner
First Guess: NOT a scan tool, it's a consumer-grade "code reader".

"Code readers" are one step above useless.

You need a REAL scan tool, or a cable/dongle/software/laptop computer scan tool substitute. Note that I do NOT favor the scan tool substitute, I merely recognize that they're popular and dirt-cheap.


these are the codes i have been getting.
15: Coolant temp sensor or circuit fault - signal voltage high.
22: Throttle POS - signal voltage is high.
34: MAP sensor - signal voltage is low during ignition on.
42: Electronic spark timing EST circuit - open or shorted.
67: Cruise control - switch circuit problems.
Clear them, see what comes back. Get concerned about the ones that return.

Download the Genuine GM service manual set for your vehicle from the links posted in the Sticky section of the Engine forum. Follow the diagnostic procedure for each code that returns.

TBI will be the death of me.
TBI is simple and generally reliable. If you think TBI is complex, wait until you start dealing with newer vehicles.

Is the exhaust system REALLY quiet? Maybe the catalyst is plugged, and it takes 30 seconds to build up enough back-pressure to stall the engine.
 

Road Trip

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2023
Messages
1,117
Reaction score
3,185
Location
Syracuse, NY
Alright let me get to the point. Every sensor on the engine has been replaced. Fuel injectors replaced. Fuel pump. consistent 13psi from pump to TBI. Took every ground out and cleaned and replaced. Replaced wiring pigtails for any connector that looks rough/broken or had corrosion in pins. Now i have been messing with this truck to try and get it to run right. I have a little auto store OBD1 scanner these are the codes i have been getting.
15: Coolant temp sensor or circuit fault - signal voltage high.
22: Throttle POS - signal voltage is high.
34: MAP sensor - signal voltage is low during ignition on.
42: Electronic spark timing EST circuit - open or shorted.
67: Cruise control - switch circuit problems.

I have checked the ground in front of the engine that most these sensors use ( to my understanding ) and it checked all good.

If you can give me a step forward for troubleshooting it would be appreciated. TBI will be the death of me.


I did all the work. The truck was bought over a year ago. Ran horribly due to a bolt logged in a valve seat. Fun times. Two new replacement heads. In that time. Bought every sensor. Fuel injectors also. All from autozone. Most of these duralast brand and fuel injectors not sure.

For grounds. All the ones I replaced where the ones pertaining to an engine wiring diagram in one of those old service books. If I can find a picture I’ll post it

Greetings Noah1167,

I agree with Schurkey that all the normal tune up stuff should be in tip top condition.
And with anyone who's doing their own work to include replacing the heads I'm going
to assume that all the normal maintenance/wear items have been verified good.

Given the sheer number of codes, if I can find a shared global resource in error I like to
verify that first before going down the individual paths. (The analogy being that if I
suddenly lose power throughout the house that instead of assuming that all of the circuit
breakers suddenly failed, maybe I should first look out the window and see if the neighbors
lost power too? :0)

With that perspective, I was able to identify G108 & G109 as being in common with all
the codes you listed. Even the cruise control. In particular, your sensors rely upon the
ECM, which in turn is grounded to the engine through G108 & G109.

For what it's worth, I've included the G108 & G109 ground distribution diagram,
the physical location drawing, and the ECM sensor wiring/grounding. And I also
included G105 (at the back of the engine) so that you could see which subsystems
share that.

One final thought, G108 & G109 are physically disturbed during a head swap, and it may
be possible that in all the excitement the electrical functionality was broken. If these shared
grounds test good then it's time for higher level functional testing. (Clearing the codes and
see what comes back.)

I know that we've covered a lot of ground, but just trying to ensure that we have the
ECM and the engine on a common electrical plane so that all the complicated stuff signaling
to each other has a chance to work as advertised.

Let us know what you uncover.

Best of luck --
 

Attachments

  • '95 G108 & G109 (notated) --1995_GM_CK_TRUCK_DRIVABILITY_EMISSIONS_AND_WIRING_DIAGRAMS.jpg
    '95 G108 & G109 (notated) --1995_GM_CK_TRUCK_DRIVABILITY_EMISSIONS_AND_WIRING_DIAGRAMS.jpg
    125.8 KB · Views: 12
  • '95 G105 ground distribution (notated) - 1995_GM_CK_TRUCK_DRIVABILITY_EMISSIONS_AND_WIRING_DIA...jpg
    '95 G105 ground distribution (notated) - 1995_GM_CK_TRUCK_DRIVABILITY_EMISSIONS_AND_WIRING_DIA...jpg
    121.6 KB · Views: 10
  • '95 ECM sensor grounds -- 1995_GM_CK_TRUCK_DRIVABILITY_EMISSIONS_AND_WIRING_DIAGRAMS.jpg
    '95 ECM sensor grounds -- 1995_GM_CK_TRUCK_DRIVABILITY_EMISSIONS_AND_WIRING_DIAGRAMS.jpg
    112.4 KB · Views: 10
  • '94 G108 & G109 physical location -- 1994_NATP-9442_DRIVEABILITY_EMISSIONS_ELECTRICAL_DIAGNOSI...jpg
    '94 G108 & G109 physical location -- 1994_NATP-9442_DRIVEABILITY_EMISSIONS_ELECTRICAL_DIAGNOSI...jpg
    281.6 KB · Views: 11

Noah1167

Newbie
Joined
Oct 2, 2023
Messages
9
Reaction score
5
Location
Pennsylvania
As mentioned earlier, at first glance, for the top 4 codes you either have 4 open wires in a
wounded harness, -or- for whatever reason the ECM and the engine do not share a common
ground plane, causing all 4 signals above to read open, even though the individual wires in the
harness are actually good?

If we can figure out a way to use one of the sensors to prove/disprove itself, and THEN see if that
same measurement is present at the ECM (with and without moving the multimeter's ground lead) then we
can prove/disprove the wiring harness theory for at least one signal...and give us a hint about the
other sensor errors?


****

So as not to make this too long to read, here is what I propose to do as a quick first pass to figure
out which way to go, using the Code 15 failure, where we can set a baseline using just an ohmmeter.

1) On a cold engine that is resting at ambient temperature, use an ohmmeter to measure the
resistance of the
Engine Coolant Temp sensor. Write it down, and compare it to the temperature/resistance
table on the 2nd attached page. Q: Does the resistance reading translate to within 5° of the actual
ambient temp? Let's assume Yes, and on to step #2.

2) Referencing the first attached page, go to the ECM pin/cavity C10 and see if you get the same reading?
NOTE: Make the first reading with the ohmmeter's ground lead in the same spot as when you first tested
the sensor in step #1. Same reading? Now move the ground lead to the ECM and repeat your measurement.

IF the reading is now open (old infinity, now 'OL') then we have a ground issue.

To recap, the 3 possibilities are:

1) Sensor fails check. Either internal open or shifted calibration. Replace sensor and retest. (Sensor as perpetrator.)
2) Sensor measurement passes check at sensor pins. But different measurement on ECM side of harness. (Sensor as victim.)
Find/Fix harness open, then retest. (DTC 15 = open. DTC 14 = short.)
3) Sensor and signal wire good. But after moving ground lead from engine to computer ground signal now out of range.
Fix ground between engine & ECM & retest.

****

Once we get this straightforward/linear/common sense sensor to communicate properly with the ECM, then this will at
least give us a solid spot from which to start troubleshooting the other sensors.

IMPORTANT NOTE: There are a some failures that we can can use DTC codes and a multimeter
to troubleshoot with. On the other hand, a DC multimeter is useless on something like the O2
sensors toggling in real time. When you start to hear that you need to see the 'live data' in order
to proceed, you really will need to do so.

But at this time you have so many codes kicking that I'm hoping that it's a single global error that we
can find, and it will fix most of what's on your plate.

One last thing. We recently troubleshot a no-start/barely-start condition back to an actual failed
ECT sensor. If you would like to see how that played out, go over here and read through this
thread: "Truck won't start, need suggestions"

To summarize, I picked the easiest sensor to measure/fix. My hope is that the underlying problem
identified by this fix will take care of the majority of the remaining codes. (Assuming that the other
new parts meet specification.)

Let us know what you discover.

Best of luck keeping another GMT400 on the road.

Cheers --
Thank you for your reply. I just checked the sensor using the chart you provided.
Sensor read with in spec. Tested two other sensors that i had previously and relayed the data at different temperatures and those also pass.
now for the seconds step that you posted. Im having a difficult time finding the connector that it describes.
I did pull the dash and moved the PCM out of the way. Those connectors going to the PCM are in good condition but the back of the connectors the red and blue are un readable.
Any help would be appreciated to be able to finish those steps. Thank you in advance.
 
Top