Why are expensive hand tools better than cheaper ones?

[TechNova]

Ive never bought a thing off of the tool trucks bud.
nothing
A grudge about the frame?
What?
What?
Are you a tool truck guy?
Heres how it happens, young people try to get into the trade and old farts tell them that they are pumpkins unless they have all of the Snap On or Mac bling.
So they go ass deep in debt and end up with a 300 buck a week or more payment to the tool truck.
And they have kids to pay for and you **** on them because they just arent up to your standards.
And they blow out of the trades with 50 grand of tools that they cant sell for 2 grand.
And a bunch of friggen hats.
And that makes you happy?

I deal with young people getting in the trade every day, your negative experience is not the norm. I am not a tool truck and have never sold tools.
You rant about a tool truck guy that hit your project, that is a grudge, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just shows your hatred for one tool guy that you group the others in. He coulda plowed thru your building and it still wouldn't apply to how expensive tools are better than cheap ones. See all those astericks in your posts? That's a rant.

 

[Zerio29]

I just like using my nice tool truck tools.
Most of my MAC and Snap-On stuff is used, and a good portion of it is from my mechanic buddy; a majority, of not all of my Matco stuff is brand new. I know most stuff from Matco is just rebranded tools, but I can get more stuff cheaper wheeling and dealing with the Matco man.
I'm trying to get myself over wanting a Snappy or MAC toolbox since it'll just be going in my shop; but I still want a quality box. Milwaukee boxes look sweet AF, and the Husky Industrials feel solid for a big box store brand, anyone got any experience with either?

going back a way in the thread, but I bought a Husky box for my shop a couple years back now and absolutely love it! It's well thought out and really tough. One of the boys in the shop had one too and he's fairly infamous for being ridiculously rough on his stuff and it's been 4 or 5 years now and its still in great shape. can't say anything about the milwaukee boxes yet though.

 

[E-gads]

I knew this was going to be a heated debate when I saw the posting. I am impressed with this group that, for the most part, it was kept very civil. This debate can be very polarizing. Me personally, I don't buy Snap-on, Mac or Cromwell. Oh, I have some that I have acquired here and there and they're nice tools. I won't ever deny that. I'm just wired to not spend that kind of money on things. Tools, as with everything like liquor, guns, cars, etc. are subject to the law of diminishing returns. If you spend three times as much, you are not getting three times better of a tool. You are getting a better tool , but not better proportionally to the dollars spent. With tools, it's a little harder to quantify due to things like feel and finish are all subjective qualities and each individual not only rates each quality differently but also how important that specific category is in the grand scheme of things. There is no right or wrong answer to this debate. Only what is right for each individual.

I just try to find tools that are of good quality for the least amount of money. I have some Husky tools that I really like (made by Stanley btw), I have some Kobalt sockets that I have used for years, some older Craftsman (Sears era), Gearwrench, Armstrong and some Harbor freight stuff. I really like the color coded sockets from Harbor freight. I've even used them with my Milwaukie 1/2" fuel impact with no problems. I think a person should weigh whether they are using them daily for a living or just working on their own vehicles on the weekend and then, most importantly, what they can afford. I would rather have a more varied tool selection of cheap tools than a limited selection of better tools. Just how I am wired.

For my shop, steel fabrication not automotive, I buy cheap tools for my employees to use. We lose and break a lot of tools. It's just the nature of the beast.. I've had venders try to sell me on the value of more expensive tools and they make good points until we come to part about the warranty covering lost tools. But when you have cheap tools, you don't mind bending, cutting and welding on them to solve a particular problem.

I do not like the seduction that the tool trucks have to younger mechanics and the debt that they can accrue. But is that the fault of the tool trucks? Perhaps some but mostly no. I would hope that older mechanics or better yet, wherever they received their training would counsel the younger guys on what is important first. Get serviceable tools for a modest amount of money and then upgrade as time and money allows. I do know that if a jeweler was stopping by my wife's work on a weekly basis and offering necklaces, pendants, and rings all on an installment plan i would probably show up and give him a black eye.

For the guys that buy off the tool truck, I applaud your willingness to get the best that you can. I really can appreciate that. I am even a little jealous of your top shelf tool collections. You make your living with those tools and I can find no fault with that. It just doesn't work for me that way. Not for tools. But then I have no problem buying a $1000 fly rod. It's all about your priorities.

 

[Zerio29]

I knew this was going to be a heated debate when I saw the posting. I am impressed with this group that, for the most part, it was kept very civil. This debate can be very polarizing. Me personally, I don't buy Snap-on, Mac or Cromwell. Oh, I have some that I have acquired here and there and they're nice tools. I won't ever deny that. I'm just wired to not spend that kind of money on things. Tools, as with everything like liquor, guns, cars, etc. are subject to the law of diminishing returns. If you spend three times as much, you are not getting three times better of a tool. You are getting a better tool , but not better proportionally to the dollars spent. With tools, it's a little harder to quantify due to things like feel and finish are all subjective qualities and each individual not only rates each quality differently but also how important that specific category is in the grand scheme of things. There is no right or wrong answer to this debate. Only what is right for each individual.

I just try to find tools that are of good quality for the least amount of money. I have some Husky tools that I really like (made by Stanley btw), I have some Kobalt sockets that I have used for years, some older Craftsman (Sears era), Gearwrench, Armstrong and some Harbor freight stuff. I really like the color coded sockets from Harbor freight. I've even used them with my Milwaukie 1/2" fuel impact with no problems. I think a person should weigh whether they are using them daily for a living or just working on their own vehicles on the weekend and then, most importantly, what they can afford. I would rather have a more varied tool selection of cheap tools than a limited selection of better tools. Just how I am wired.

For my shop, steel fabrication not automotive, I buy cheap tools for my employees to use. We lose and break a lot of tools. It's just the nature of the beast.. I've had venders try to sell me on the value of more expensive tools and they make good points until we come to part about the warranty covering lost tools. But when you have cheap tools, you don't mind bending, cutting and welding on them to solve a particular problem.

I do not like the seduction that the tool trucks have to younger mechanics and the debt that they can accrue. But is that the fault of the tool trucks? Perhaps some but mostly no. I would hope that older mechanics or better yet, wherever they received their training would counsel the younger guys on what is important first. Get serviceable tools for a modest amount of money and then upgrade as time and money allows. I do know that if a jeweler was stopping by my wife's work on a weekly basis and offering necklaces, pendants, and rings all on an installment plan i would probably show up and give him a black eye.

For the guys that buy off the tool truck, I applaud your willingness to get the best that you can. I really can appreciate that. I am even a little jealous of your top shelf tool collections. You make your living with those tools and I can find no fault with that. It just doesn't work for me that way. Not for tools. But then I have no problem buying a $1000 fly rod. It's all about your priorities.

Well said man well said.

Of course this group is civil! I think this is one of the last known places on the internet available to the public that still has respect for differences.

The debate comes down to whether or not you think its worth it or if you're getting ripped off. For most guys buying "high-end" brand name tools, it's the warranties and customer service from their tool guy that makes it worth it. I work around dozens of these guys every day and our tool guy is more than awesome. Of course no one likes a greasy/sleazy salesman - we can all agree on that.

There is a certain culture around owning snap-on stuff that maybe sometimes is the result of tool truck salesmen, but fact of the matter is that it's often created by the same driving force that makes people buy a white T-shirt with a ****** logo that just says supreme on it for a couple hundred $$. Not to say there's no quality difference... but it is sometimes negligible.

 

[thinger2]

I deal with young people getting in the trade every day, your negative experience is not the norm. I am not a tool truck and have never sold tools.
You rant about a tool truck guy that hit your project, that is a grudge, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just shows your hatred for one tool guy that you group the others in. He coulda plowed thru your building and it still wouldn't apply to how expensive tools are better than cheap ones. See all those astericks in your posts? That's a rant.

Yep, tool

 

[thinger2]

I knew this was going to be a heated debate when I saw the posting. I am impressed with this group that, for the most part, it was kept very civil. This debate can be very polarizing. Me personally, I don't buy Snap-on, Mac or Cromwell. Oh, I have some that I have acquired here and there and they're nice tools. I won't ever deny that. I'm just wired to not spend that kind of money on things. Tools, as with everything like liquor, guns, cars, etc. are subject to the law of diminishing returns. If you spend three times as much, you are not getting three times better of a tool. You are getting a better tool , but not better proportionally to the dollars spent. With tools, it's a little harder to quantify due to things like feel and finish are all subjective qualities and each individual not only rates each quality differently but also how important that specific category is in the grand scheme of things. There is no right or wrong answer to this debate. Only what is right for each individual.

I just try to find tools that are of good quality for the least amount of money. I have some Husky tools that I really like (made by Stanley btw), I have some Kobalt sockets that I have used for years, some older Craftsman (Sears era), Gearwrench, Armstrong and some Harbor freight stuff. I really like the color coded sockets from Harbor freight. I've even used them with my Milwaukie 1/2" fuel impact with no problems. I think a person should weigh whether they are using them daily for a living or just working on their own vehicles on the weekend and then, most importantly, what they can afford. I would rather have a more varied tool selection of cheap tools than a limited selection of better tools. Just how I am wired.

For my shop, steel fabrication not automotive, I buy cheap tools for my employees to use. We lose and break a lot of tools. It's just the nature of the beast.. I've had venders try to sell me on the value of more expensive tools and they make good points until we come to part about the warranty covering lost tools. But when you have cheap tools, you don't mind bending, cutting and welding on them to solve a particular problem.

I do not like the seduction that the tool trucks have to younger mechanics and the debt that they can accrue. But is that the fault of the tool trucks? Perhaps some but mostly no. I would hope that older mechanics or better yet, wherever they received their training would counsel the younger guys on what is important first. Get serviceable tools for a modest amount of money and then upgrade as time and money allows. I do know that if a jeweler was stopping by my wife's work on a weekly basis and offering necklaces, pendants, and rings all on an installment plan i would probably show up and give him a black eye.

For the guys that buy off the tool truck, I applaud your willingness to get the best that you can. I really can appreciate that. I am even a little jealous of your top shelf tool collections. You make your living with those tools and I can find no fault with that. It just doesn't work for me that way. Not for tools. But then I have no problem buying a $1000 fly rod. It's all about your priorities.

my Problem with the tool truck has always been about the sick relationship between the the old guys whove bought into it and the downward pressure they put on the apprentices.
This whole notion that you arent worth **** because you havent been ripped off by the tool guy yet is just so frigging absurd.
And it only happens at mechanic shops anymore.
Tool trucks are banned from construction sites and precision shops and anything in aerospace.
They take advantage of people who are trying to get into a trade .
The old ***** are trying to beat the young ones down.
And they get burned out.
With a bunch of debt to the tool guy.
And those tools aint worth **** when they try to sell them.
And that is exactly how it happens kids.
Every day in my job is about trying to get people excited about this industry.
And everyday is also about trying to keep stupid old idiots from killing them.
This is why "tool *****" are banned from my job sites.
They are vultures.
They have no ******* idea about anything.
They cant tell you the safety spec they dont know the load rate they dont now anything.
And, a good god almost 40 years of doing this.
Im pretty sure those people really dont care about you

 

[Turbo4whl]

New to this forum, this thread was a very interesting read. I have been making a living pulling wrenches for over 50 years. Yeah I am that old, started right out of high school. I have a Craftsman storage system (second replacement) with used Snap-On side cabinets.

I have Craftsman, Mac, Snap-On, K-D, Starrett, Proto, Channel-lock and Vise Grip tools to name a few. I prefer the Snap-On wrenches and my 1/4" and 3/8" drive sockets are mostly Snap-On. The 1/2" drive sockets are mostly old Craftsman and my 3/4" drive set is a mix of brands from 3/4" up to 3".

I like my Channel-lock pliers and real Vise Grip Tools. Got some OTC stuff too. I never owed the tool guys more than a couple hundred dollars at a time. They all always wanted to sell me one of their fancy expensive boxes, I would tell them the tool box doesn't do any of the work.

Harbor Freight didn't exist when I was buying most of my tools. I like to buy USA made products but as stated before, some imports are just a much better deal. A good example is Snap-On taps and dies. Don't buy them, the H number is too high. Good quality Ace or Greenfield or Hanson taps all have the H number printed on them. Snap-On taps don't even though they are made in the USA.

 

[Papablunt]

Loving the responses so far. This thread has certainly made me realize that there are definitive and quantifiable differences between quality, feel, and use. In my own research and experience, ...ultimately, it just depends on the tool.

I'm sure a few of you guys have heard of Project Farm on YouTube. I've been watching his videos for a few days now, and it's pretty interesting that even the top tool brands have similar failures as cheaper tools. For instance, in terms of bite and hold ability, Irwin pliers were right up there with Knipex, and Wiha pliers... while the Mac tools and Channelock pliers he tested actually did worse in the tests, having troubles holding onto bolts and such.

I have all sorts of tools in my toolbox from all sorts of brands. Most tools have lifetime warranties these days, but the kicker is actually getting it warrantied. I was able to get a Tekton torque wrench replaced in under 6 hours from start of email to tracking number; however, I've been waiting over 48 hours just to hear back from OTC on a warranty claim for an extendable pry bar. Tekton's super-fast customer service might be the exception, but having to wait 48 hours for a reply on a warranty claim through OTC sure puts a weird taste in your mouth. It certainly makes me wonder why I spent 3x the cost on an OTC vs. Tekton.

Whoever wants to look into it, Harbor Freight makes a 3-ton hydraulic jack that is identical to one that Snap-on makes. Prices? $200 vs $700. Spend your money however you want, but at some point you have to understand that you might be the Kool-Aid drinker.

I think @E-gads said it best... you get to a point of diminishing returns, and only you can decide if it's worth it at that point. People equate high cost with high quality, and I think to assume that Brand A is always better than Brand B is a mistake.

 

[Schurkey]

Good luck with OTC. OTC is a four-letter word to me.

I made a warranty claim on a hydraulic jack about four years ago. The warranty claim was APPROVED. They sent a freight company to pick-up my broken jack; promised me a low-profile replacement (OTC 5200). Offered to give me a cheap-junk Chinese "temporary" jack, (which I declined) as the low-profile unit was out-of-stock with more available in " a month or so".

I have yet to see the replacement jack that I was promised. I've been waiting since...2018.

OTC is a bunch of liars, crooks, and thieves. Total dirtbags. APPARENTLY this began with the Bosch take-over.

I finally figured-out that they are never going to re-stock the low-profile jack; the "temporary" cheap-junk jack was always intended to be the "replacement" unit--they were just lying to me about the 5200 so I'd accept the "temporary" junk jack.

 

[thinger2]

I knew this was going to be a heated debate when I saw the posting. I am impressed with this group that, for the most part, it was kept very civil. This debate can be very polarizing. Me personally, I don't buy Snap-on, Mac or Cromwell. Oh, I have some that I have acquired here and there and they're nice tools. I won't ever deny that. I'm just wired to not spend that kind of money on things. Tools, as with everything like liquor, guns, cars, etc. are subject to the law of diminishing returns. If you spend three times as much, you are not getting three times better of a tool. You are getting a better tool , but not better proportionally to the dollars spent. With tools, it's a little harder to quantify due to things like feel and finish are all subjective qualities and each individual not only rates each quality differently but also how important that specific category is in the grand scheme of things. There is no right or wrong answer to this debate. Only what is right for each individual.

I just try to find tools that are of good quality for the least amount of money. I have some Husky tools that I really like (made by Stanley btw), I have some Kobalt sockets that I have used for years, some older Craftsman (Sears era), Gearwrench, Armstrong and some Harbor freight stuff. I really like the color coded sockets from Harbor freight. I've even used them with my Milwaukie 1/2" fuel impact with no problems. I think a person should weigh whether they are using them daily for a living or just working on their own vehicles on the weekend and then, most importantly, what they can afford. I would rather have a more varied tool selection of cheap tools than a limited selection of better tools. Just how I am wired.

For my shop, steel fabrication not automotive, I buy cheap tools for my employees to use. We lose and break a lot of tools. It's just the nature of the beast.. I've had venders try to sell me on the value of more expensive tools and they make good points until we come to part about the warranty covering lost tools. But when you have cheap tools, you don't mind bending, cutting and welding on them to solve a particular problem.

I do not like the seduction that the tool trucks have to younger mechanics and the debt that they can accrue. But is that the fault of the tool trucks? Perhaps some but mostly no. I would hope that older mechanics or better yet, wherever they received their training would counsel the younger guys on what is important first. Get serviceable tools for a modest amount of money and then upgrade as time and money allows. I do know that if a jeweler was stopping by my wife's work on a weekly basis and offering necklaces, pendants, and rings all on an installment plan i would probably show up and give him a black eye.

For the guys that buy off the tool truck, I applaud your willingness to get the best that you can. I really can appreciate that. I am even a little jealous of your top shelf tool collections. You make your living with those tools and I can find no fault with that. It just doesn't work for me that way. Not for tools. But then I have no problem buying a $1000 fly rod. It's all about your priorities.

well said. I have several issues with the whole tool truck culture and how it runs apprentices deep into debt.
And how the older deep in debt guys push that on them as some kind of a gatekeeping entry to them being accepted.
Its this very odd notion.
"I got financially screwed so that means it is only fair that you get screwed too"
Another reason for my distaste for tool truck guys is due to my short career as a car salesman.
Ive been through all of the sales training.
When you show up in the big ice cream truck and start passing out hats and beef jerkey I know exactly what you are up to and I know exactly how you think about it.
And it is predatory and maybe sociopathic.
And, You do not get to show up and walk through my shop like you own the joint.
You do not get to walk in and repo somebodys tools because they didnt pay you.
You dont have a "deal" with me.
I dont owe you **** and I will throw your greasy salesman ass right the **** out the door.
My shop *********.
Go cry across the street.