Thoughts on motor condition?

[Rustjunky67]

Hi everyone, so in my last post regarding my camshaft distributor drive gear, the picture I had was from the overhead view looking down hole....
After lots of thought and reading and reading and thinking and reading etc, I ordered a flat tappet basically stock replacement (I know I know but $$) with lifters and timing set. Elgin E-274-s, Elgin hl 1817s, and cloyes 3023 double roller....
While waiting for it, I of course went down the cam/lifter failure rabbit hole while doing some other clean up and maintenance items..... needless to say now scared to death to have this happen to me (remember I'm at the never-even-taken-rocker-covers-off-an-engine-before pay grade).....
Ok so to get to the point, after FINALLY getting oil pan out (what were those engineers freaking thinking lol), these are some pics from that view...I have plenty more if needed....
But the gear doesn't look nearly like what I expected to see, maybe it was the overhead angle that was causing the original picture to appear as worn as it looked......
I would like to ask if anyone sees anything that needs to be addressed, anything that's not right, or potentially could be a concern, anything that warrants immediate "cease-and-desist further work and replace motor", advice, criticism, or otherwise..... I would LOVE to get anther 350k on this old girl if I can.....
I couldn't find any rule addressing too many pics so I apologize if it's too much.....
Thanks in advance!!

 

[RichLo]

Cross hatching almost looks too good for 350k miles. Maybe it was rebuilt or at least re-ringed at one point. It also looks more 'flat' than factory cross hatching, that's common when somebody uses a power drill to bring them back.

 

[Rustjunky67]

Here's some more

 

[Rustjunky67]

And the other 5

 

[Rustjunky67]

Cross hatching almost looks too good for 350k miles. Maybe it was rebuilt or at least re-ringed at one point. It also looks more 'flat' than factory cross hatching, that's common when somebody uses a power drill to bring them back.

Yeah the po/oo told me it had been rebuilt what is now probably 25k ago.... what about that cam gear that is/ was my first concern and has sent me down a road of learning more than i ever intended to about these trucks, which is a good thing I guess!! Oh and the wear on the lobes..... does it look OK?

 

[GoToGuy]

What happened to the cam gear? Some thing not right. If your worried about the ring wear, a compression check would tell.
And you have zero experience, do you have a mentor, or mechanical leader, friend, buddy someone? And the factory service manuals book 1, and book 2, to guide you? After you've done it or assist another it makes sense, like " oh yeah I get it" . But never before can be a big first bite.
Good luck, have fun!

 

[Schurkey]

I'm not concerned about "too many photos", but I don't understand why you started a new thread on the same issue.

That cam gear looks "done" to me.

High-school kids have swapped camshafts. Cam swaps are not especially challenging. BUT--they probably have had the valve covers off, replaced iron manifolds with aluminum, installed headers. Lots of experience with other "engine work" before they attempted the cam swap.

You're going in kinda "blind". This is do-able, but your chances of success improve when you have someone--preferably with experience--looking over your shoulder. Even a non-experienced person who DOESN'T DISTRACT YOU, but instead looks for things you've forgotten, keeps track of various parts, etc. can be a benefit.

If you posted your actual location, perhaps a member of this site could guide you.

The complicating factor in this case is the generally-poor quality of lifters in today's market. I hear stories of every possible manufacturing failure.
Soft metal for lifter body
Lack of proper curvature on the bottom "lifter foot"
Metal chips or other debris inside the lifter
Incorrect oil band location
Missing internal pieces*
Incorrect clearances between internal pieces
Incorrect lifter diameter providing improper clearance between lifter and lifter bore.

*Actually happened to me, on an Olds 455. Manufacturer "forgot" to install the check-valve under the plunger. Lifter would not pump-up. Clattered like mad.

When I install lifters--new or used--I pull them apart ONE AT A TIME for cleaning and inspection. When reassembled, I use a pump-style oil can to fill the lifter with ATF until the oil comes out the pushrod socket. Then I press on the pushrod socket using a pushrod. This allows me to verify the lifter's leakdown rate, AND proves that the lifter can pass oil to the pushrods.

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If you pump-up the lifters, you must be extra-careful when setting lifter preload via the rocker-arm nuts. Turn the nuts slowly, and watch the valve--be sure you're not opening the valve because the lifter can't leak down fast enough. Go slow, you'll be fine.

There's a dozen ways to set lifter preload, and they all "can" work if done properly. That's a posing all on it's own.

Different manufacturers use somewhat different internal components--ball checkvalves vs. disc checkvalves, stamped metering valves vs. metering valves with holes, coil springs vs. helical-coil or belleville springs, etc. But in general, hydraulic lifters are "all the same" except the plungers are select-fit into the lifter body, so DO NOT MIX THEM FROM ONE LIFTER TO ANOTHER.

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This is ancient, I believe that none of these manufacturers are still using these designs--and most aren't making lifters at all. But it's a nice comparison of the variations.

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When it's me, I put the cam and lifters in place, lubed with ATF. BEFORE installing the pushrods or timing set, I spin the cam and watch all the lifters. Each lifter must spin in the lifter bore as the cam is turned. Some spin faster than others, but any that DO NOT spin, need attention.

Once I know that all lifters spin, I remove the ATF from the lifter bottoms and cam lobes, apply the real flat-tappet assembly lube on the cam lobes and lifter bottoms, and continue with assembly. When the cam gear "dot" is at 12:00 and the crank gear dot is at 12:00, point the rotor at #1 terminal of the distributor cap. MOST guys align the crank gear at 12:00 and the cam gear at 6:00, so the dots are close together. Then the rotor has to point to #6 NOT #1.

"I" always set up a degree wheel and dial indicator to "degree" the cam. Probably more complicated than you want on your first attempt. MAKE SURE you have the timing chain/gears installed properly. If you're off, the engine will run terrible and you risk smacking the valves with the pistons as the crank turns.

 

[GoToGuy]

Ah, the memories, sitting at the bench with 16 small block lifters from Crower, to disassemble clean inspect reassemble oil and install with a new Crower cam.

 

[Rustjunky67]

What happened to the cam gear? Some thing not right. If your worried about the ring wear, a compression check would tell.
And you have zero experience, do you have a mentor, or mechanical leader, friend, buddy someone? And the factory service manuals book 1, and book 2, to guide you? After you've done it or assist another it makes sense, like " oh yeah I get it" . But never before can be a big first bite.
Good luck, have fun!

Not sure what happened to gear, if anything..... that's what I'm trying to determine with this post.....
Yeah I'm not worried about being able to do it, my concern is doing it RIGHT..... not zero mechanical experience just zero doing this.... there seem to be a plethora of little nuances and little things that can cause an irreparable issue if not done or not done properly.... and the sorry state of parts quality should have everybody concerned..... there needs to be some class action lawsuits filed and accountability required.....I digress, but yeah I grew up on a farm so I CAN easily accomplish the job provided I know all that is needed to do it properly...... no shortcuts.... that's why I'm grateful for people in this and other forums and people who create useful instructional videos to help others....
Thank you all!!

 

[Erik the Awful]

The first pic of the second set is just a weird point in the block where several of the machining jobs converged and left a funky shape. I deburred my block this last weekend and hit those points with a sanding roll. Didn't reshape them, just took off the sharp edges.