Steering Wheel Upside Down

[Qball]

How many times do I have to say the same thing?

CENTER THE STEERING GEAR.

If the steering gear is centered, AND the road wheels are "straight ahead", then the steering wheel is upside down; the problem is somewhere in the steering column.

CENTER THE STEERING GEAR.

If the steering gear is centered, AND the steering wheel is right side up, the wheels won't be straight ahead, and the problem is in the steering linkage, probably the tie rod ends--although we could be talking about a bent frame, misaligned rear axle, or something else equally weird.

CENTER THE STEERING GEAR.
CENTER THE STEERING GEAR.
CENTER THE STEERING GEAR.
CENTER THE STEERING GEAR.

Alright I will double-check the steering gear is centered and other things in the column.
Just to be clear I would check center by going lock to lock and counting turns correct?

 

[Schurkey]

Turning the steering wheel from lock-to-lock, and then going half-way in between, is the START of finding center-point on the gear. If the vehicle alignment is far enough off, you'll get a false result if the wheels hit the frame, control arm, or whatever before the steering gear gets to the true end-of-travel position.

You need to verify that the stub shaft--the shaft that the rag joint bolts to--has the flat on the shaft facing upward, parallel with the top cover. (GM calls it the "side cover", but it's on the top surface of the gear when installed in the vehicle.) Meanwhile, the Master Spline on the Pitman shaft is in-line with the adjuster screw on the top cover. You need BOTH to be in proper position, or the steering gear is built improperly.

Diagram for this is in the service manual. On my '97 C/K manual, text is on page 3B1A-4, and the diagrams are on the next page, 3B1A-5.

I would check center by going lock to lock and counting turns correct?

See quote above.

 

[Qball]

See quote above.

Thank you I will check that tomorrow if I get time last thing I wanna do is take something that works but is mildly annoying and turn it into something that doesn't work at all.

 

[GoToGuy]

A little tough luv time. Stop fing guessing mumbo jumbo. And get RFTM. (Read the effing manual) You can download them for free here. I could not live with this...the shame, the ridicule, the stinkeye. You probly need to start with section "replacing steering gearbox" and follow the procedures for centering and aligning upper and lower shaft with steering wheel. There just is too many small issues or unknowns that could all and up to the " dude why is your wheel upside down with the wheels straight?"

 

[Qball]

A little tough luv time. Stop fing guessing mumbo jumbo. And get RFTM. (Read the effing manual) You can download them for free here. I could not live with this...the shame, the ridicule, the stinkeye. You probly need to start with section "replacing steering gearbox" and follow the procedures for centering and aligning upper and lower shaft with steering wheel. There just is too many small issues or unknowns that could all and up to the " dude why is your wheel upside down with the wheels straight?"

I really just wanna fix it to read gauges. If I find it's gonna be a 3+ hour job of something of that nature I will have to decide if I deem it worth it to fix. Because while it is a bit annoying I don't know that it is annoying enough to me (knowing I will be the final owner of this truck) to fix it if it's something like having to take out the whole shaft and grind off the rivets for the rag joint and then put a new one on. Also tbf so far I've not done a whole a lot of guessing to fix it, it's more just been a "hey Im already doing x lets see if we can fix it while at it" like when I did the steering box replacement that was because I was already doing the pitman arm but noticed the seal on the box was leaking so it was a "hey Im already in here might as well do it" and then trying to fix it with an alignment was a "hey Im getting the alignment maybe we can fix that too". This was my guessing stop so to speak. Also you said I could find manuals here mind pointing me in the right direction looking at forum subs I don't see one that'd seem right

 

[Hipster]

We didn't rotate it much at all and that was about 2ish years ago. Now I'm here trying to sort out where to go some suggested rag joint but mine riveted, someone suggested an alignment and that wont work as I've been told there's just not enough tie rod

It might have had an oem replacement or used shaft put in it at some point so rivets are not definitive that it's the original but other things to look at were mentioned as well.

THE ALIGNMENT IS ALWAYS THE LAST THING DONE AFTER THE OTHER ISSUES ARE SORTED. Never where you start. Start at the box. Get over it. One bad alignment after another is not helping you. Free isn't always a good deal.

That being said, just about every single steering column I've ever been into, rebuilt, replaced parts in etc everything has been indexed and this is to facilitate assembly at the oem level where the vehicle isn't even present. Key ways, shafts clearanced for bolts that only go in one way etc. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it would be pretty hard to screw up even intentionally.

Other things, bent steering arm/knuckle not allowing sufficient adjustment on one side, bent frame, or bent control arm(s).
A proper alignment would have Included angle, SAI, turn radius measurements and any tech worth his salt would have checked/printed setback measurements all of which aids in diagnosing bent parts. You can have caster , camber , and toe in spec and still have bent parts on the vehicle. If caster camber and toe is all you got on an alignment sheet you got a half-assed alignment. Get 10 more done like that and none of them matter either. If the guys you deal with don't want to get a little more involved or have the experience find someone else.

 

[Qball]

It might have had an oem replacement or used shaft put in it at some point so rivets are not definitive that it's the original but other things to look at were mentioned as well.

THE ALIGNMENT IS ALWAYS THE LAST THING DONE AFTER THE OTHER ISSUES ARE SORTED. Never where you start. Start at the box. Get over it. One bad alignment after another is not helping you. Free isn't always a good deal.

That being said, just about every single steering column I've ever been into, rebuilt, replaced parts in etc everything has been indexed and this is to facilitate assembly at the oem level where the vehicle isn't even present. Key ways, shafts clearanced for bolts that only go in one way etc. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it would be pretty hard to screw up even intentionally.

Other things, bent steering arm/knuckle not allowing sufficient adjustment on one side, bent frame, or bent control arm(s).
A proper alignment would have Included angle, SAI, turn radius measurements and any tech worth his salt would have checked/printed setback measurements all of which aids in diagnosing bent parts. You can have caster , camber , and toe in spec and still have bent parts on the vehicle. If caster camber and toe is all you got on an alignment sheet you got a half-assed alignment. Get 10 more done like that and none of them matter either.

From what I've been told/seen/experienced frame is straight. Been under the truck plenty of times and not seen a bend in it and had a good alignment in it (tho wheel was still wrong side up) and truck drove straight. A bent frame would lead me to believe the truck would never drive straight. The steering box I believe is not at fault unless the new reman I got was clocked a 180 out also which I just can't believe. As far as it being index gonna be honest don't think we took two seconds to look at it before putting the wheel true and trying to get it on only to fail. TBF my leading theory to the million dollar question of why is the wheel upside down has always been a DIY job gone bad (in the truck's past life) and somebody went screw it good enough (had to have been a hot day and they were just done and it worked)

 

[Hipster]

From what I've been told/seen/experienced frame is straight. Been under the truck plenty of times and not seen a bend in it and had a good alignment in it (tho wheel was still wrong side up) and truck drove straight. A bent frame would lead me to believe the truck would never drive straight. The steering box I believe is not at fault unless the new reman I got was clocked a 180 out also which I just can't believe. As far as it being index gonna be honest don't think we took two seconds to look at it before putting the wheel true and trying to get it on only to fail. TBF my leading theory to the million dollar question of why is the wheel upside down has always been a DIY job gone bad (in the truck's past life) and somebody went screw it good enough (had to have been a hot day and they were just done and it worked)

Um , no, Unless you got under there with at least tram gauges and a frame spec sheet and started measuring you know nothing. These days I use Car-o-Liner frame straightening and measuring equipment where we can measure just about anything on a car including control arm mounts and ball joint location etc. Not much you can't measure with that system. Not all frame damage is visible. I've already stated several times you can have caster, camber, and toe in spec and the vehicle will still drive straight with bent parts still on it. Once you start using electronic measuring equipment you learn that your eyes lie to you and you miss damage.

It's more likely the suspension got jacked up on one side. Maybe a few jy parts thrown at it or nothing at all and it was good enough, even with the wheel upside down, to pawn off on someone that didn't know what they were looking at. There's an ass for every seat.

30 plus years doing collision work and I could walk you through doing some simple checks and measurements on frame and suspension, but no need. You checked it with your calibrated eyeball and determined it's all good. SMH

If you really new the answers you wouldn't be here asking questions and the answers to your million dollar question and what to check and why you need to do these things have already been posted.

 

[red98]

Um , no, Unless you got under there with at least tram gauges and a frame spec sheet and started measuring you know nothing. These days I use Car-o-Liner frame straightening and measuring equipment where we can measure just about anything on a car including control arm mounts and ball joint location etc. Not much you can't measure with that system. Not all frame damage is visible. I've already stated several times you can have caster, camber, and toe in spec and the vehicle will still drive straight with bent parts still on it. Once you start using electronic measuring equipment you learn that your eyes lie to you and you miss damage.

It's more likely the suspension got jacked up on one side. Maybe a few jy parts thrown at it or nothing at all and it was good enough, even with the wheel upside down, to pawn off on someone that didn't know what they were looking at. There's an ass for every seat.

30 plus years doing collision work and I could walk you through doing some simple checks and measurements on frame and suspension, but no need. You checked it with your calibrated eyeball and determined it's all good. SMH

If you really new the answers you wouldn't be here asking questions and the answers to your million dollar question and what to check and why you need to do these things have already been posted.

He should just take the advice given here, until he comes back with a data sheet from a bodyshop with a frame rack showing that it is in fact straight. Then we can move on to "what if's."

 

[GoToGuy]

https://www.gmt400.com/threads/88-95-service-manuals.43575/ Here is the link from the other day. It was where i posted about manuals and the moderator added the link on this forum.