Rod thrown, what now?

[1998_K1500_Sub]

Good catch, thanks. Why does it being from a 4x4 or not make a difference? Did they have different manifold designs to avoid hitting the crossmember or something?

Didn't someone recently state that the later 4x4 GMT400s (1994+?) came with the OE strengthening rods (that's my term for them... they might have been GM's attempt at a NVH improvement) on both sides of the engine that reach from the transmission housing / torque converter cover up to the front of the engine (to the engine mounts?), whereas the 2x4 GMT400s did not?

Regardless, would OP even care if these "rods" were or were not employed on the donor engine?

Maybe someone can shine some light on whether it matters.

 

[stutaeng]

Didn't someone recently state that the later 4x4 GMT400s (1994+?) came with the OE strengthening rods (my term... they might have been a NVH improvement) on both sides of the engine that reach from the transmission housing / torque converter cover up to the front of the engine (to the engine mounts?), whereas the 2x4 GMT400s did not?

Regardless, would OP even care if these "rods" were or were not employed on the donor engine?

I don't know the answer.

But I think I saw somewhere they were saying those rods only came on the 4x4. It has to do with the torsional stresses the transfer case exerts on the transmission case because it hangs off to the side.

No transfer case on 2wd, so no reason for them on those trucks.

I think those are what the rods you are talking about?

 

[packer0440]

Didn't someone recently state that the later 4x4 GMT400s (1994+?) came with the OE strengthening rods (my term... they might have been a NVH improvement) on both sides of the engine that reach from the transmission housing / torque converter cover up to the front of the engine (to the engine mounts?), whereas the 2x4 GMT400s did not?

Regardless, would OP even care if these "rods" were or were not employed on the donor engine?

Maybe someone can shine some light on whether it matters.

I think I know what you’re referencing. I’ve heard them called “strut rods” but same thing. For what it’s worth, my 1990 4x4 doesn’t have them but there are threaded holes in the bottom of the bellhousing where it seems like they would go, could have been removed.

 

[Eargesplitten]

I hadn't even thought about any rods like that. On the other hand if the 454SS didn't come with them they probably wouldn't be strictly necessary I would hope? The 350 has an oil adapter like mentioned above on the 4x4. It looks like the part is available still looking at the dealer I ordered parts from before, and that's assuming that the one off the old engine doesn't fit. They take the same oil filters but maybe there's other stuff hanging off the bottom of the engine that gets in the way of the one from the 350, I don't know.

 

[BeXtreme]

My 97 K2500 with 454 has the rods on it. They run from flat pads under the motor mount onto cast-in pads on the dust cover for the 4L80e. That motor and trans is getting the original NP205 from my K25 hung off the back and getting stuck into the 1980 K25. I left those rods on and also put the original support rod that ran from the side of the NP205 up to the top passenger side of the bellhousing. The 205 is super heavy and all those support rods help keep everything from twisting too bad while under load.

 

[packer0440]

I hadn't even thought about any rods like that. On the other hand if the 454SS didn't come with them they probably wouldn't be strictly necessary I would hope? The 350 has an oil adapter like mentioned above on the 4x4. It looks like the part is available still looking at the dealer I ordered parts from before, and that's assuming that the one off the old engine doesn't fit. They take the same oil filters but maybe there's other stuff hanging off the bottom of the engine that gets in the way of the one from the 350, I don't know.

My 1990 has a 454 with an SM465 trans originally with nearly 300k miles and didn’t seem to have any issues. No cracked bellhousing or anything else. If your truck has them now they should go right back on with a big block since the motor mounts are the same. The need for them is derived from the amount of stress placed on the tranny from the transfer case, not engine size, so having a big block wouldnt then necessitate having the strut rods. If you don’t currently have and have no issues then don’t worry. The 350 oil filter adapter might swap over like you mentioned. Just thought I’d throw that out there since I wasn’t sure about the availability of them.

 

[1998_K1500_Sub]

all those support rods help keep everything from twisting too bad while under load.

The need for them is derived from the amount of stress placed on the tranny from the transfer case, not engine size, so having a big block wouldnt then necessitate having the strut rods

GM may have added these rods willy-nilly, because my 1995 S10 2x4 4.3L TBI 4L60E had those rods... I say "had" because I removed them when I replaced the 4.3L with a 5.7L L31 long block.

I would have re-installed them but their length wasn't correct for the longer V8.

At the time I removed them, I figured they were simply for NVH improvement, as that was around the timeframe IIRC that GM started focusing on such things.

In 1995, the 4L60E transmission still had the legacy housing, but it was outfitted with a formidable torque converter cover (I think it would have been called an "inspection cover") that bolted securely onto the transmission and acted as a landing for the two rods which extended back on either side of the engine.

In later years IIRC, prior to the LS engines, (somebody confirm / deny this) the transmission housing and engine oil pan (?) were redesigned to bolt together and fully envelope the torque converter, thus providing added strength to the entire assembly and replace those "rods" which had been added in prior years.

 

[Eargesplitten]

I think I probably won't go with that engine just because I don't want to source the brackets and parts that are missing and then try to figure out how they go together. What is involved in putting a Vortec (non-LS) engine in assuming I have the harness and ECM from the new engine and have a manual so no TCM is needed? It feels like at that point it should be as simple as remove old engine and wiring harness, put new wiring harness and engine in, but I work in IT and "simple as..." usually precedes the biggest pain in the neck I'm going to deal with all month. Someone is selling a Vortec 8100 for a decent price with low miles. OBD-1 to OBD-2 scares me but it seems like I would be replacing everything that was OBD1 to begin with in favor of something that was OBD2 to begin with.

 

[stutaeng]

8.1 swap would be as involved as an LS, as the electronics are pretty much the same as LS, as well as transmission stuff.

SBC Vortec swap? Never though about it, but there may be swaps on here. I recall a 454 TBI to Vortec thread here on a blue K3500 CCLB but that was an automatic; that thread was a full frame-off restoration/complete rewiring job though. I suppose if you get an ECU with matching engine and from a manual transmission, engine and complete wiring harness, you'd be almost there. Will require pump upgrade as was mentioned.

Or take a 97+ ECU and get it reflashed to your use along with everything else.

BTW, "Vortec" just means "truck" engine in GM language. The so-called "LS" 4.8/5.3/6.0/6.2 were all still Vortec (8.1 was also Vortec), but I understand what you mean....oh forgot the 4.3...also Vortec.

You get a Vortec! ...and you get a Vortec! Everyone gets Vortec! LOL

 

[Supercharged111]

SBC Vortec is easy, only run the long block and slap a different intake on so it'll run off of TBI. Good luck finding a tuner though. That said Vortec 350 motors are a dime a dozen in the pull and pay yards here and if you're trying to be cheap, a bump in fuel pressure may get you by. A tune is the correct answer though.