Questionable epoxy/weld job

[Amsterdamned96]

New gm Bare block is 1800. Usually see complete used engine for 1k or less

Thanks, that is good to know. If you happen to come across a bare block, please contact me!

 

[618 Syndicate]

I'm happy to help facilitate on this end.

 

[yevgenievich]

Found a bare block for $500 or complete gen 6 for $1k. Seems like lately people are asking a lot for them. A bunch are asking 2-3k for stock gen 6 motors. Almost easier to just get a new gm block. Would still be worth taking existing to get checked first

 

[thinger2]

This is an ALLEGEDLY low-mileage 4-bolt main Gen iv 454. I’ve been told it’s been damaged by a fire, I can’t wether this is what caused to block warp & tear. The bore measures stock and the cross-hatching is intact, the interior also showed little wear coinciding with the low mileage.
There is however a crack at cyl 8, (right besides the oil filter) that has been filled with some two-component epoxy. There also appear to be two porous spot welds, not sure if this is just slag or a particularly bad weld.

I hope to hear your thoughts on this, I’m by no means a welder so please correct me if I’m wrong.

See the photos below.

Edit;
it’s actually by the outer wall of cyl. 7, also the epoxy produces a ding when tapped with a screwdriver or rock hammer. Is that a trait of JB weld or other steel based two-component putty?

You can have an engine fire that gets hot enough to split the block.
Heres how I know that.
I burned a 73 Chrysler New Yorker 440 all the way to the firewall.
It cracked a core plug so I replaced it with a rubber expansion plug it and lost all of the coolant and it was covered in grease.
125 dollar car.
It lit on fire. And the hood release would not open.
Because this happened on the 4th of July, the fire department didnt get to the scene for about 45 minutes.
When they showed up, they stuck two big prybars on either side of the hood and ripped it open.
The block had split and the crancase oil was onfire.
Blue flames were coming out of the side of the block.
All of the aluminum or pot metal parts melted and dribbled on the ground
The carburator melted and the pistons melted.
Both front tires lit on fire and popped
It was quite the show.
Flames were shooting out of the dash vents.
The transmission bellhousing melted and the transmission fluid caught on fire..
My insane freind dove into that burning shitbox to save a case of Rainier beer.
The next day another freind thought he would salvage some big block mopar parts off of this wreck.
The intake came off in about ten different chunks.
Both heads were split into multiple pieces.
It left a crack in the block that looks a whole lot like the crack in your block.
The first thing I would do is grind that down to bare metal and see what has been done to it.
It could be a casting flaw but it sure doesnt look like it to me.
That would be an odd place to have a flaw and an odd structure and shape for a flaw.
Even if it is a casting flaw. Its a fatal flaw.
The only real way to weld an iron block is to stick weld it with nickel rod.
And that takes a bit of skill and is not guaranteed by anyone who does it.
That process is usually only done in Semi engines or marine engines or farm equipment.
Situations where it is insanely expensive to remove and rebuild the engine.
The epoxy part of it.
If you dont know who did it or what it is.
Grind it out and clean the base and repair it yourself.
Always.
Multi part adhesives or resins require follwing a very specific set of instructions
Temperature, mix ratio, cure time, surface prep etc...
When in doubt, grind it out.
The last time I got dragged into replacing stringers on a glass boat was becuase the guy had several 5 gallon buckets that all looked the same.
He mixed glass resin with expanding foam catlyist .
Then, just to make it extra special.
He shut off the shop heat in the middle of winter.
To save a few bucks on the utilty bill.
He ended up with 21 feet of uncured never gonna cure slimey goo.
We took that crap out with shovels and putty knifes.
And at least 20 gallons of acetone.
Failure to read instructions.
And a 4 thousand dollar ******.
The moral of the story is that you have no idea what knucklehead did that odd patch.
I think you need to cut your losses.
I understand that you are in a tough spot with availabilty but I personnally wouldnt trust that block at all.

 

[Amsterdamned96]

You can have an engine fire that gets hot enough to split the block.
Heres how I know that.
I burned a 73 Chrysler New Yorker 440 all the way to the firewall.
It cracked a core plug so I replaced it with a rubber expansion plug it and lost all of the coolant and it was covered in grease.
125 dollar car.
It lit on fire. And the hood release would not open.
Because this happened on the 4th of July, the fire department didnt get to the scene for about 45 minutes.
When they showed up, they stuck two big prybars on either side of the hood and ripped it open.
The block had split and the crancase oil was onfire.
Blue flames were coming out of the side of the block.
All of the aluminum or pot metal parts melted and dribbled on the ground
The carburator melted and the pistons melted.
Both front tires lit on fire and popped
It was quite the show.
Flames were shooting out of the dash vents.
The transmission bellhousing melted and the transmission fluid caught on fire..
My insane freind dove into that burning shitbox to save a case of Rainier beer.
The next day another freind thought he would salvage some big block mopar parts off of this wreck.
The intake came off in about ten different chunks.
Both heads were split into multiple pieces.
It left a crack in the block that looks a whole lot like the crack in your block.
The first thing I would do is grind that down to bare metal and see what has been done to it.
It could be a casting flaw but it sure doesnt look like it to me.
That would be an odd place to have a flaw and an odd structure and shape for a flaw.
Even if it is a casting flaw. Its a fatal flaw.
The only real way to weld an iron block is to stick weld it with nickel rod.
And that takes a bit of skill and is not guaranteed by anyone who does it.
That process is usually only done in Semi engines or marine engines or farm equipment.
Situations where it is insanely expensive to remove and rebuild the engine.
The epoxy part of it.
If you dont know who did it or what it is.
Grind it out and clean the base and repair it yourself.
Always.
Multi part adhesives or resins require follwing a very specific set of instructions
Temperature, mix ratio, cure time, surface prep etc...
When in doubt, grind it out.
The last time I got dragged into replacing stringers on a glass boat was becuase the guy had several 5 gallon buckets that all looked the same.
He mixed glass resin with expanding foam catlyist .
Then, just to make it extra special.
He shut off the shop heat in the middle of winter.
To save a few bucks on the utilty bill.
He ended up with 21 feet of uncured never gonna cure slimey goo.
We took that crap out with shovels and putty knifes.
And at least 20 gallons of acetone.
Failure to read instructions.
And a 4 thousand dollar ******.
The moral of the story is that you have no idea what knucklehead did that odd patch.
I think you need to cut your losses.
I understand that you are in a tough spot with availabilty but I personnally wouldnt trust that block at all.

I'm happy to help facilitate on this end.

Thank you, I'm glad to hear that!

 

[Amsterdamned96]

Found a bare block for $500 or complete gen 6 for $1k. Seems like lately people are asking a lot for them. A bunch are asking 2-3k for stock gen 6 motors. Almost easier to just get a new gm block. Would still be worth taking existing to get checked first

Thank you for looking into it. Any chance you could post or pm the photos, if there are any? Are you near the coast? Might be more convenient to ship to Spain from there, if it were to come that far.

 

[Amsterdamned96]

You can have an engine fire that gets hot enough to split the block.
Heres how I know that.
I burned a 73 Chrysler New Yorker 440 all the way to the firewall.
It cracked a core plug so I replaced it with a rubber expansion plug it and lost all of the coolant and it was covered in grease.
125 dollar car.
It lit on fire. And the hood release would not open.
Because this happened on the 4th of July, the fire department didnt get to the scene for about 45 minutes.
When they showed up, they stuck two big prybars on either side of the hood and ripped it open.
The block had split and the crancase oil was onfire.
Blue flames were coming out of the side of the block.
All of the aluminum or pot metal parts melted and dribbled on the ground
The carburator melted and the pistons melted.
Both front tires lit on fire and popped
It was quite the show.
Flames were shooting out of the dash vents.
The transmission bellhousing melted and the transmission fluid caught on fire..
My insane freind dove into that burning shitbox to save a case of Rainier beer.
The next day another freind thought he would salvage some big block mopar parts off of this wreck.
The intake came off in about ten different chunks.
Both heads were split into multiple pieces.
It left a crack in the block that looks a whole lot like the crack in your block.
The first thing I would do is grind that down to bare metal and see what has been done to it.
It could be a casting flaw but it sure doesnt look like it to me.
That would be an odd place to have a flaw and an odd structure and shape for a flaw.
Even if it is a casting flaw. Its a fatal flaw.
The only real way to weld an iron block is to stick weld it with nickel rod.
And that takes a bit of skill and is not guaranteed by anyone who does it.
That process is usually only done in Semi engines or marine engines or farm equipment.
Situations where it is insanely expensive to remove and rebuild the engine.
The epoxy part of it.
If you dont know who did it or what it is.
Grind it out and clean the base and repair it yourself.
Always.
Multi part adhesives or resins require follwing a very specific set of instructions
Temperature, mix ratio, cure time, surface prep etc...
When in doubt, grind it out.
The last time I got dragged into replacing stringers on a glass boat was becuase the guy had several 5 gallon buckets that all looked the same.
He mixed glass resin with expanding foam catlyist .
Then, just to make it extra special.
He shut off the shop heat in the middle of winter.
To save a few bucks on the utilty bill.
He ended up with 21 feet of uncured never gonna cure slimey goo.
We took that crap out with shovels and putty knifes.
And at least 20 gallons of acetone.
Failure to read instructions.
And a 4 thousand dollar ******.
The moral of the story is that you have no idea what knucklehead did that odd patch.
I think you need to cut your losses.
I understand that you are in a tough spot with availabilty but I personnally wouldnt trust that block at all.

Damn, that's an interesting story. I really want to get this seam sonically inspected before making any decisions. I'm looking to see if anyone local does this kind of work.

Edit: In regards to the welding itself, I have no equipment or prior experience. However I'm incredibly eager to learn and have a steady-hand. You state it takes a certain affinity with welding to do this properly, any advice on how I'd approach something like this if I wanted to do it as a novice? I know enough welders, it's just that I enjoy doing it independently and would like to get into welding sooner or later regardless.

 

[thinger2]

Damn, that's an interesting story. I really want to get this seam sonically inspected before making any decisions. I'm looking to see if anyone local does this kind of work.

Edit: In regards to the welding itself, I have no equipment or prior experience. However I'm incredibly eager to learn and have a steady-hand. You state it takes a certain affinity with welding to do this properly, any advice on how I'd approach something like this if I wanted to do it as a novice? I know enough welders, it's just that I enjoy doing it independently and would like to get into welding sooner or later regardless.

I wouldnt even try it. When you first start welding do it on projects that dont involve life safety or potential disaster.
Get some scrap steel and build a plant stand.
Back in the last century when I took high school metal shop one of our projects was to build jack stands.
Yep, high school kids stick welding jack stands. ( it was the 80s)
They finnally had to stop that after a few injuries and deaths.
God knows how many sets of them are floating around.
Probably still safer than harbor freight.
All kinds of info online about welding cast iron and how it can be done.
But welding a cast iron engine block is a different thing than welding patio furniture.
The block is pretty thin and is essentially a hollow structure.
The problem with welding a crack in cast is that it wants to keep cracking in front of the weld.
On a solid structure or even a hollow steel structure you can find the end of the crack and drill a hole.
Called "Stop Drilling"
It is harder for a crack to propogate around a radious than in a straight line.
Then you grind the crack and weld it.
You cant really do much of that on a block.
Because that crack is in a water passage or between cylinders or whatever.
It cracked and split at a void.
So you cant open the crack or hole without blowing weld metal into the void.

 

[Amsterdamned96]

Hey, so I've found this Dart Big M that has a similar casting seam. I'm no longer as worried about it and think the porous bits are sand inclusions from casting and I'm willing to take the risk. I've decided I'll be putting this block back in after checking for warpage and honing & cross-hatching the walls and new, bearings, fasteners and gaskets.