New guy from California

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Racer X

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The motor came out of a chevy express van so no you can't use it. As far as I've read you can only swap from another truck and it has to be the same model as in u have a 3500 so it would have to come from a newer 3500. Thats how I interpret the laws here. I'd recommend calling a referre and asking them.
Welcome from NorCal
Thanks, Your right, the best way to find out is get ahold of a referee. These days it would just be foolish to spend a pot of money and find out after it runs perfect that it's a legal no-go. I would imagine I'm in for quite the hoop jumping and red tape process. Just for hypothetical. Let's say I could get it smogged. Is there any reason a van engine wouldn't work? or is there a better choice for a donor besides one out of a 3500. Like an Escalade or Tahoe? I really like the Corvette engine but that's based on looks alone. Also I can't find which tranny I have doing a vin search, where do I look on it to find out?
 

GarrettGmc

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Just a quick copy/paste

An engine change involves swapping a car engine with another that is not identical, under California law. The state insists that the newly-installed block must be the same age or newer than the one coming out of the car. It must be from the same type of vehicle, such as a passenger car or light duty truck. If the car is California-certified then the engine going in to the car must also be California-certified. Car owners must make sure an engine change does not increase pollution levels, according to California's Air Resources Board. Car owners must submit their car for inspection after an engine change takes place. This is carried out at a state referee station where the vehicle is subject to an emissions test and checked to see that all required equipment is where it should be under California law

If I understand correctly since ur truck is a 3500 its technically a heavy duty so you wouldn't be able to swap in an engine from a light duty. I could be wrong which is why I mentioned calling a referre.
 

kennythewelder

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Thanks, nice looking truck. I would have held out for an extra cab but the single is better for parking on these tiny streets.
Thanks, I have a lot of work in my truck. Im working on a floor console with a 1970 Chevelle floor shifter, and some small LED bowtie curtersy lights that work with the interior lights. I will post some pics once Im done. Shifter is something like this. I painted the aluminum you see in this pic, a flat black. The aluminum was to bright, and reflecting the sun. Console is out of a 2006 Tahoe, and seats out of a 96 Tahoe. the front section, I built.
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Racer X

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Well I just got done reading a 50 page report from BAR/CARB. Man am I in for a doozy. Even if I can find the right engine it's going to be a PITA. And you are correct it has to be the same model of truck but it can be newer. It just has to use the newer emissions requirements. Here's the rules verbatim and a link to the page where I got it. https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/Smog_Check_Reference_Guide.pdf This guide goes through all the inpector rules too so I just copy and pasted the pertinent info here for any that might be interested. Lucky for me we have a ref in South San Francisco about 5 miles away. They even say on their website to just rebuild it instead but I'm gonna try. Decent 5.7 vortecs are getting to be hens teeth. My goal is to future proof the truck for a few years and the LS seems like it's going to be around for a while.
It's taken me a while to write this and I'm starting think it might be money better spent to build a souped up version of the stock engine.
APPENDIX D: STATE OF CALIFORNIA – ENGINE CHANGE GUIDELINES The California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) have jointly developed the following engine change guidelines with the focus on maintaining air quality for all Californians while also providing a reasonable pathway for the occurrence of engine changes on California vehicles. State and federal anti-tampering laws specifically prohibit any modification to the vehicle's original emission control system configuration as certified by the manufacturer. One such law is California Vehicle Code Section 27156 which states that no person shall disconnect, modify, or alter any required motor vehicle pollution control device. In addition, Section 3362.1 of the California Code of Regulations states, “An automotive repair dealer shall not make any motor vehicle engine change that degrades the effectiveness of a vehicle’s emission control system. Nor shall said dealer, in the process of rebuilding the original engine or while installing a replacement engine, effect changes that would degrade the effectiveness of the original emission control system and/or components thereof”. In summary, these laws prohibit any engine change that degrades the effectiveness of the vehicle's original emission control system. Engine changes can present problems and challenges to vehicle owners, inspectors, and technicians. Our recommendation is to rebuild and reinstall the original engine, transmission, and emission control system configuration, use a California certified engine, or use a CARB exempted engine package. Exempted emissions compliant engine packages are restricted to specific applications and must not be installed in vehicle applications that are not included in the exemption. Check the Executive Order for details, which can be viewed at, https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/amquery-091517.php by choosing Select Device Type: Engine Modification/Engine Change. It is important to remember that the guidelines in this document are for performing engine changes and are not exemption procedures. All vehicles with engine changes must pass an inspection by a BAR Referee and must have a BAR Referee label affixed to the vehicle inside the engine compartment. After the initial referee inspection, the vehicle will remain subject to ALL the same recipient vehicle requirements for future Smog Check inspections. I. Non-OBD II1 certified vehicles receiving an OBD II certified engine must meet the following: a. The donor engine must be in a stock certified configuration, and support ALL the certified OBD II functionality b. Modifications of the intake and exhaust system are permissible only if necessary to accommodate the packaging of the vehicle and only if they do not affect the functionality of the systems. Any changes must not modify the stock functional design of the components (i.e. the intake air box must not be modified, EGR valves still properly mounted, etc.) c. The transmission and evaporative systems will be allowed to remain in the recipient vehicle configuration, but must function appropriately (see i below) 1 OBD II was phased in, and generally applies to model years 1996 and newer for gasoline vehicles, and 1998 and newer for diesel vehicles. The Vehicle Emission Control Information label for the vehicle will indicated if it is OBD II certified. Appendix D 46 d. ALL of the requirements (a-i) listed below for “All model year vehicles” II. Vehicles originally equipped with OBD II must receive an OBD II certified engine and meet the following: a. All emission system configurations must be in the original emission control system configuration as the donor vehicle, including, but not limited to, the transmission, evaporative system, exhaust, and intake b. ALL of the requirements (a-i) listed below for “All model year vehicles” III. Electric vehicle conversions must meet the following: a. Vehicles converted to 100% electric drive, with power supplied exclusively by onboard batteries, are considered in compliance with the engine change requirements provided: i. All fuel system components are removed prior to inspection, including the fuel tank, lines and evaporative system ii. No fuel-fired heater is installed on the vehicle b. None of the requirements (a-i) listed below for “All model year vehicles” apply to electric vehicle conversions IV. All model year vehicles (gasoline, diesel, hybrid, CNG, LNG, LPG, etc.) must meet the following: a. Model Year - The installed engine must be of the same model year or newer than the model year of the recipient vehicle b. Engine Classification - Vehicle and engine classifications of the donor and recipient vehicles must be the same based on Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). Classification examples include passenger car, light-duty truck (LDT1, LDT2), light-heavy-duty truck (LHD1, LHD2), medium-duty vehicle (MDV), etc. For example, a heavy-duty truck engine may not be installed in a light-duty truck even if they have the same displacement. Non-emissions controlled engines, such as industrial and off-road-use-only engines, and non-certified “crate engines”, MAY NOT be installed in any emission- controlled vehicle c. Certification Type - The certification type (California or Federal certification) of the engine and recipient vehicle must be the same or, if not, the engine must adhere to the more stringent standard. For example, a California certified engine may be installed in a Federal vehicle but a Federal engine may not be installed in a California vehicle. Proof of the certification type from the manufacturer or CARB EO of the donor engine must be provided at the time of the engine change inspection at the Referee d. Smog Check Tests - The vehicle must pass ALL of the following Smog Check tests (regardless of model year) using the donor vehicle Smog Check test type requirements: Appendix D 47 i. BAR-97 tailpipe test (this item does not apply to diesel and hybrid vehicles). Acceleration Simulation Mode (ASM) test unless the vehicle is not compatible with dynamometer testing. In such cases, the Two Speed Idle (TSI) test shall apply. Emission standards appropriate for the model year of the donor vehicle will be applied. Note that Smog Check Program area test types do not apply to engine changes i.e. Basic area vehicles will receive an ASM test ii. BAR-OIS test when an On-Board Diagnostics (OBD II) certified donor engine is installed (ALL Smog Check Program areas) iii. Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) (“CHECK ENGINE" light) must pass the bulb check, and full OBD functionality. This includes donor engines equipped with OBD-I (1995 and older OBD equipped engines) capabilities iv. Visual inspection of all emissions control systems Functional tests when applicable for the donor vehicle (this item does not apply to diesel or hybrid vehicles), including: 1. Ignition Timing Test 2. EGR System Functional Test 3. Low Pressure Fuel Evaporative Test (LPFET) 4. Fuel Cap Integrity Test v. Visible Smoke Test (this item does not apply to hybrid vehicles) vi. Liquid Fuel Leak (this item does not apply to diesel vehicles) e. Exhaust System - All exhaust after-treatment devices (catalytic converters, Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF), Diesel Oxidation Catalysts (DOC), Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR), etc.) the donor vehicle was certified to use must be present and positioned under the vehicle in the same linear position within the exhaust stream as measured from the exhaust manifold outlet. If the device is integrated with the exhaust manifold, it must remain that way. Tolerances for this measurement as are follows: i. On the close-coupled end (nearest the engine), within 6 inches, and no closer than the stock configuration ii. On the other devices (rear catalyst, DPF, DOC, SCR, etc.) within 12 inches of the stock configuration No other exhaust system changes are allowed, unless they occur downstream of the last emissions control device i.e. (Oxygen sensor (O2), NOx sensor, etc.). For example, the muffler location(s) may be modified. f. Exhaust Sensors - All required after-treatment sensors including Oxygen (O2) sensor(s) must: Appendix D 48 i. Be within 1 inch of the original location (relative to the associated aftertreatment device) ii. Have bungs properly welded into the exhaust pipes and must be oriented in the exhaust stream identically to the original configuration g. OBD II System - Any vehicle with a replacement engine from a donor vehicle that was originally equipped with an OBD II system must support all OBD II functionality from the donor vehicle: i. Calibration Identification (CalID) and Calibration Verification Number (CVN) must match a certified configuration for the donor engine ii. ALL supported OBD readiness monitors must be in a ready (complete) condition. Vehicle owners may need to work with the manufacturer, dealer or repair shop with necessary tools and expertise to get potentially difficult monitors to be ready (complete) iii. Readiness monitors must clear and reset properly iv. The Original Equipment Manufacturer Diagnostic Link Connector (DLC) must be accessible and fully functional. No devices may be plugged into the DLC at the time of inspection. If more than one DLC is located on the vehicle, then the DLC for the engine must be labeled as “ENGINE DLC”. The label must be robust, permanent, clearly readable, and highly visible v. All sensors, switches, and wiring harnesses needed to make the system fully functional must be properly connected vi. MIL must be in a visible location on the vehicle’s instrument cluster and be clearly labeled as a MIL and functioning h. Aftermarket Parts - All non-OEM configurations or aftermarket components installed on the recipient vehicle or donor engine must adhere to BAR’s Aftermarket Parts Verification Guidelines located in the Smog Check Manual, Appendix G available at www.bar.ca.gov. CARB’s list of approved aftermarket parts with Executive Orders (EO’s) can be found at https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/amquery.php i. Emissions Systems - All emissions systems (including the evaporative system monitoring) from the donor vehicle must be installed and fully functional. For example, the evaporative system components, i.e. plumbing, canister, tanks, valves, etc. must be present and functioning. If a non-OBD II certified vehicle is receiving an OBD II certified replacement engine, the transmission and fuel storage/evaporative system from the recipient vehicle may still be used. However, these components and systems must be integrated with the engine’s OBD II system such that the OBD system’s transmission and evaporative system monitoring strategies remain operational.
 

Racer X

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Thanks, I have a lot of work in my truck. Im working on a floor console with a 1970 Chevelle floor shifter, and some small LED bowtie curtersy lights that work with the interior lights. I will post some pics once Im done. Shifter is something like this. I painted the aluminum you see in this pic, a flat black. The aluminum was to bright, and reflecting the sun. Console is out of a 2006 Tahoe, and seats out of a 96 Tahoe. the front section, I built.
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Sweet! I like that dash better. Is that just an airbag option dash or is it out of a Tahoe? Mine has cup holders. I'm planning on the same seats for mine. Maybe some electric doors too but that's down the road I gotta get this thing to smog first. I've seen those Tahoe consoles in a few OBS trucks they look pretty good. They made a two piece like yours. I forget what year they made a single piece one too that you have to cut to fit the dash but look sweet when done right. I'm going with the Escalade console because it fits under the dash and I have plans for the ashtray area.
Question: Does the harness have the heart of the wiring and I just add the relays and pigtails to the stock harness or am I going to have to cannibalize a harness to make it all work stock. I have the bare bones on electrics not even an airbag. Surprisingly it has 4 speakers.
 

kennythewelder

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Dash is OE 97 Silverado. Console had an upturn section but I didnt want that. I wanted it to fit under the dash, not crawl up the dash, and cover the ashtray. Also there would have been no room for the floor shifter. I do have a Denali gauge cluster in the dash. They have a 120MPH speedo and the lighting is different. I have a lot of pic of my truck in my in my album. Just click my avatar, the my albums, and then my 97, for a look. As for wiring , im not sure, but I will say this. The seat swap was very easy. I went from 60-40 to the Tahoe buckets. Everything lined up, and I was very suprised when I plugged in the wiring harness to the drivers power seat, and everything worked. The OE seat, only had power lumbar support. The passengers seat, is not power. I kept the OE seat bottom from the 40 section, so it still slides forward when you tilt the back forward. I just swapped out the back from the Tahoe seat, because it had the arm rest.
 

Racer X

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Just a quick copy/paste

An engine change involves swapping a car engine with another that is not identical, under California law. The state insists that the newly-installed block must be the same age or newer than the one coming out of the car. It must be from the same type of vehicle, such as a passenger car or light duty truck. If the car is California-certified then the engine going in to the car must also be California-certified. Car owners must make sure an engine change does not increase pollution levels, according to California's Air Resources Board. Car owners must submit their car for inspection after an engine change takes place. This is carried out at a state referee station where the vehicle is subject to an emissions test and checked to see that all required equipment is where it should be under California law

If I understand correctly since ur truck is a 3500 its technically a heavy duty so you wouldn't be able to swap in an engine from a light duty. I could be wrong which is why I mentioned calling a referre.

Hey Garrett Thanks for the input man. I'm thinking I might just build a little hotter version of the original but I'll know more after I talk to the ref. On a side note I'm from Redding! My mom and brother live up there still and I go to visit all the time. Maybe I'll see ya out on 5, 44 or 299 and don't forget 273. I've taken my all original, numbers matching, 50,000 mile, 67 Mustang to every Kool April nights for the last 25 yrs. Bummer about this year though I was in quarantine anyway.
 

kennythewelder

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There are no emissions testing here, but there is a state inspection. All your lights have to work, horn also. Mirrors, need to be intact. Basically of you have a CEL, you may not pass inspection. Oh and your brakes have to be in good working order. Some places here are more strict that others. Keep in mind though that we only have about 4.5 million people in our whole state. The city I live in has a little over 125,000 but metro area is just over 480,000.
 

Racer X

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Dash is OE 97 Silverado. Console had an upturn section but I didnt want that. I wanted it to fit under the dash, not crawl up the dash, and cover the ashtray. Also there would have been no room for the floor shifter. I do have a Denali gauge cluster in the dash. They have a 120MPH speedo and the lighting is different. I have a lot of pic of my truck in my in my album. Just click my avatar, the my albums, and then my 97, for a look. As for wiring , im not sure, but I will say this. The seat swap was very easy. I went from 60-40 to the Tahoe buckets. Everything lined up, and I was very suprised when I plugged in the wiring harness to the drivers power seat, and everything worked. The OE seat, only had power lumbar support. The passengers seat, is not power. I kept the OE seat bottom from the 40 section, so it still slides forward when you tilt the back forward. I just swapped out the back from the Tahoe seat, because it had the arm rest.

Oh man I gotta get that instrument cluster, that's cool. I would imagine I'm going to have to find a harness from a electric single cab. Or modify an extra cab one seeing as I would like electric doors.
 
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