Need help with Vortec 350 recurring hard-start/no-start

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thegawd

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Thanks Schurkey, is the carbon supposed to be there? or is this what is left of whatever was there? is it an insulator? sorry for the dumbass questions LMAO everything I know about these trucks basically come from this one truck and reading the internets. lol

well I pulled it out of a garbage can and I can definitely throw it right back in. haha. I would never rely on it but if it got me to a parts store for a new one then I would be happy.
 

geeeee89

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Do you know if your distributor is original? Maybe look for a high quality unit. Don't buy the cap just yet. A new distributor cones with the cap AND camshaft position sensor. Those 2 other items are a good $75 for both...

Same thing with the FPR. A new MPFI injector set comes with a new FPR, so if you are going to go through the hassle, might as well upgrade to the MPFI setup. Unless that's already been done.
It's the stock distributor as far as I know, same with the injector setup. I will hold off on the FPR for now, and if I have to open up the intake I'll go ahead and do the MPFI while I'm there but hopefully that can wait a while. I'll start shopping for distributors
 

geeeee89

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Verify that the rubber/plastic hood seal, at the windshield-end of the hood is in place and functional. Otherwise, rainwater can flow down on top of the distributor.

Connect the spark-tester to the distributor end of the coil wire. Point the sparking bit towards the driver's seat. Now you can crank the engine and watch the sparks at the spark-tester as a one-person operation. Same deal with using the spark-tester on plug wires--point the spark tester towards the driver's seat so you can see it from the seat; or from standing at the driver's door, reaching through the window to turn the key.

Wouldn't hurt to put an ohmmeter across the coil wire, and across the plug wires. OEM wires should be less than 4000 ohms per foot of wire. Aftermarket wires may be as low as ~50 ohms per foot--but don't believe the advertising that suggests you get a stronger spark because of the low resistance. It's a lie of omission. They "forget" to tell you that the low-resistance plug wires have high inductance. Resistance, or inductance, can and does kill spark current without disturbing voltage much.

Run the engine in a dark garage, or on a moonless night with the hood open. Look for "glow" around the plug wires. If the plug wires glow like a neon light...you need new plug wires.
Good ideas, I'll get to work on all this stuff this week. Thank you for the suggestions
 

Schurkey

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Most distributor caps have a carbon "button" for the coil-wire terminal-to-rotor contact. This introduces high resistance intentionally. The high resistance reduces current flow while not affecting voltage much. Reducing current (amperage) flow reduces TV-Radio interference (static.)

The older coil-in-cap HEI distributor caps had a replaceable carbon button; you'd get a new button included with a new ignition coil, or as a separate item at the parts store. Low-resistance buttons were available in the aftermarket, and generally a good idea. The other caps, like the Vortec, and TBI, and the old "points" distributor caps, have it permanently attached--when it wears out or gets damaged, the cap is "done".

Your Vortec distributor housing is plastic--right? If it's aluminum, someone already replaced it. Most, maybe all "new" aluminum Vortec distributors are Chinese. Therefore, cheap and with no guarantee that they're made right.

Every aluminum Vortec distributor that I've held in my hand is a machined aluminum casting, but unethical sellers may describe them as "billet" aluminum. IF (big IF) there are genuine "billet" distributors, you can bet they're not bargain-priced.
 

stutaeng

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It's the stock distributor as far as I know, same with the injector setup. I will hold off on the FPR for now, and if I have to open up the intake I'll go ahead and do the MPFI while I'm there but hopefully that can wait a while. I'll start shopping for distributors
Some say the only cap & rotor to buy is the AC Delco brand...I don't know on that.

On my k3500 5.7 when I changed the injectors, I noticed the cap had a crack in it. First instinct was to run to the local parts store and get a replacement...but then I had a fear of going through this again in that truck, so I stuck the old one back in, LOL...it did look like the original one too.

@Schurkey Do you have a recommendation for a good distributer for the 5.7 Vortec?
 

thegawd

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Okay, thanks for that explanation. well, since I tried very hard to remove the carbon, its garbage! hahaha I never knew that.

Ya I'm sure the aluminum distributor base I have is made in China. I would have to look up the name but "bravex?" comes to mind. I bought it based on practically perfect reviews on amazon. I didn't need it when I bought it and I wanted to put it in my sierra. but I actually couldn't find any other complete dist. assemblies online with better reviews.

the distributor caps were practically identical and same with the rotor. but all the screws are actually machine screws and it looks really good.

I almost installed it in the burb and I kind of want to do it. I dont have the right scanner to fix the cam/crank correlation and chickened out.

I do have a couple apps and a bluetooth dongle though. I dont have torque pro but I do have dash command and I think it is capable I just have not tried.
 

Terrys97

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Im am new to the gmt400 but not to wrenching on trucks. A couple of the toughest no start issues I learned on is to check the resistance range of electric parts. I had a truck that had fire to the plug but would not start. Long story short is the Primary and Secondary coil ranges were not into spec.

Another issue was doing Continuity Checks. a 50 strand wire with 49 wires broken will pass a resistance check. Best to do the resistance values per manual.

Even new parts out of the box can be bad. I once changed my plug wires and the coil wire was broken inside. It ran but was worse then when I started.

In a dark garage or dark highway. I have popped the hood and looked for blue arches. Usually if this trick finds anything it is plug wires shorting against something.
 
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Schurkey

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Some say the only cap & rotor to buy is the AC Delco brand...I don't know on that.
I've heard the same--but--the concern is getting a GOOD QUALITY cap and rotor, not buying a specific brand. AC-Delco is seen as a good quality cap and rotor; but that doesn't mean they couldn't change suppliers or cheapen their product. Nor does it preclude other manufacturers from making as-good-or-better product.

Last "Vortec" cap and rotor I bought were from United Motor Products; brass terminals and a vent in the top of the cap. Learned about them from this web site; although I forget which actual person (but I think they posted in this thread.) Likely HotWheelsBurban.
@Schurkey Do you have a recommendation for a good distributer for the 5.7 Vortec?
No. I'm not thrilled with the OEM plastic housing; and I'm not thrilled with anything made in China. Nobody goes to China to improve quality, they go to China to improve profit margins.

If you're lucky, the product is specified by competent engineers, it's made to meet those specs, the Chinese didn't cheat or cheapen, and the Communist Collaborators in this country are doing proper QA on the incoming parts. That doesn't always happen. In fact, it's altogether too rare.

I bought a nearly-new Summit-brand Vortec distributor for 5.0/5.7 engines, used, from a forum member here. He sold it because he couldn't get the cam sensor/crank sensor outputs to synchronize. We both think the distributor was made incorrectly. The difference is that I'm willing to abuse the distributor in order to improve alignment; and he was sick of it. We both got what we wanted out of that deal. That distributor is parked on a shelf in my garage until I "get around" to dicking with it.

I have zero faith that other "brands" of distributor are any better. Truth is, I expect they're all made by the same bottom-feeder Chinese manufacturer, put in different boxes, and sold under thirty different brand-names.

But I've been wrong before.
Ya I'm sure the aluminum distributor base I have is made in China. I would have to look up the name but "bravex?" comes to mind. I bought it based on practically perfect reviews on amazon.
I nearly-always read the Amazon reviews; and I select or reject based on what I read. Having said that, I'm also aware that many reviews on Amazon and other web-sites are falsified. I've had sellers ask me to falsify or retract my negative reviews; I know that reviews get screwed-with.

I dont have the right scanner to fix the cam/crank correlation and chickened out.
I have heard of using a cut-open distributor cap to inspect alignment of the rotor tip to the distributor cap terminals. Twist the distributor to achieve best alignment. "I guess" that works. I've never tried it, and I don't plan to. This is why I have a scan tool.

When I bought my '97 K2500, the "Cam Offset" or cam sensor/crank sensor alignment was at 29 degrees. I turned the distributor until I got within 2 degrees as shown on my scan tool.

I do have a couple apps and a bluetooth dongle though. I dont have torque pro but I do have dash command and I think it is capable I just have not tried.
Worth looking into.

yes it is a bravex. the distributor has brass contacts.
Two things to know about "brass contacts" on the rotor and distributor cap.
1. Brass does not conduct as well as aluminum. The advantage is that it doesn't corrode like aluminum. Nothing wrong with aluminum terminals if they're appropriately maintained.

2. The cap and rotor are mostly "plastic". There's ten thousand kinds and grades of "plastic". Brass terminals molded into cheap, thin, fragile plastic doesn't make a good product.

A couple of the toughest no start issues I learned on is to check the resistance range of electric parts. I had a truck that had fire to the plug but would not start. Long story short is the Primary and Secondary coil ranges were not into spec.
Absolutely. Ignition coils can become "weak" while still producing some spark. And failed / partially-failed ignition coils are among the primary causes of failed ignition modules. Another cause of failed modules is that they're knockoff junk created to maximize profit in some hell-hole country.

Another issue was doing Continuity Checks. a 50 strand wire with 49 wires broken will pass a resistance check. Best to do the resistance values per manual.
ALSO absolutely true. A "voltage drop" test can be more telling than a resistance test because the "voltage drop" (VD) test involves real-world amperage load, while an ohmmeter uses a microscopic amperage/voltage.

In a dark garage or dark highway. I have popped the hood and looked for blue arches. Usually if this trick finds anything it is plug wires shorting against something.
Two separate "inspections".
1. Looking and listening for the flash of light and "snap...snap...snap" of an actual arc from plug wire to ground

2. Looking for glow around one or more plug wires/coil wires; indicating "corona effect" without an actual arc. Corona effect indicates partial loss of spark power, while an arc indicates a total loss of current (amperage) to the plugs.
 
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