Narrowing down common TBI problems...

[Schurkey]

"Ethanol" gets blamed for a lot of problems on numerous forums. I don't believe the Ethanol is all that bad.

It does pick up water; the water can cause problems--but if the fuel is fresh it's not likely to have significant water in it.

I have an unproven suspicion that certain areas in the country are getting fuel with toxic waste or industrial solvents mixed-in, because it's cheaper to put it in the gasoline than to dispose of it properly. The unadvertised chemicals cause problems, and Ethanol takes the blame.

I've used "gasohol" or E-10 for over forty years. I got a bad batch from a marine gas station; loaded my boat fuel tanks with water-contaminated fuel. Not the fault of the fuel; that's a fault of the gas station owner.

My uncle got a bad batch of fuel; he said it happened in the Denver area. Car ran like **** through three states; when he got to me I put two fuel filters in it--one when he got here, and another just before he left, and he got home OK except for needing yet another fuel filter. Again, that's the gas station's fault, not the fuel.

I've run E-10 in Holley, Rochester, Keihin, Mikuni and small-engine carbs; TBI and port fuel injection. Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring. I haven't had an unusual number of fuel system issues.

But some folks can't get a tank of E-10 and get three blocks away without issues.

 

[thegawd]

huh. hahaha I literally just scratched my head. ;-) oh well corn is for eating.

 

[kenh]

"Ethanol" gets blamed for a lot of problems on numerous forums. I don't believe the Ethanol is all that bad.

It does pick up water; the water can cause problems--but if the fuel is fresh it's not likely to have significant water in it.

I have an unproven suspicion that certain areas in the country are getting fuel with toxic waste or industrial solvents mixed-in, because it's cheaper to put it in the gasoline than to dispose of it properly. The unadvertised chemicals cause problems, and Ethanol takes the blame.

I've used "gasohol" or E-10 for over forty years. I got a bad batch from a marine gas station; loaded my boat fuel tanks with water-contaminated fuel. Not the fault of the fuel; that's a fault of the gas station owner.

My uncle got a bad batch of fuel; he said it happened in the Denver area. Car ran like **** through three states; when he got to me I put two fuel filters in it--one when he got here, and another just before he left, and he got home OK except for needing yet another fuel filter. Again, that's the gas station's fault, not the fuel.

I've run E-10 in Holley, Rochester, Keihin, Mikuni and small-engine carbs; TBI and port fuel injection. Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring. I haven't had an unusual number of fuel system issues.

But some folks can't get a tank of E-10 and get three blocks away without issues.

My experiance exactly. I feel fortunate as I live in a hot bed of ethanol production. Without counting I'd say I have 10+ ethanol production plants within a 60 mile radius of me. I'm sure we have the freshest ethanol in the nation.

With that said, everything I own gets ethanol (E10). I have very few issues. Chain saws and weed wacker just get put away without any special prep. Lawn mower gets put away in the fall with what ever gas is in the tank. Always starts and runs well the next spring. Motorcycle does get the tank and carbs drained as the four carbs are a PITA to remove to clean and of everything i get the most grief from the bike carbs.

Ken

 

[thinger2]

"Ethanol" gets blamed for a lot of problems on numerous forums. I don't believe the Ethanol is all that bad.

It does pick up water; the water can cause problems--but if the fuel is fresh it's not likely to have significant water in it.

I have an unproven suspicion that certain areas in the country are getting fuel with toxic waste or industrial solvents mixed-in, because it's cheaper to put it in the gasoline than to dispose of it properly. The unadvertised chemicals cause problems, and Ethanol takes the blame.

I've used "gasohol" or E-10 for over forty years. I got a bad batch from a marine gas station; loaded my boat fuel tanks with water-contaminated fuel. Not the fault of the fuel; that's a fault of the gas station owner.

My uncle got a bad batch of fuel; he said it happened in the Denver area. Car ran like **** through three states; when he got to me I put two fuel filters in it--one when he got here, and another just before he left, and he got home OK except for needing yet another fuel filter. Again, that's the gas station's fault, not the fuel.

I've run E-10 in Holley, Rochester, Keihin, Mikuni and small-engine carbs; TBI and port fuel injection. Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring. I haven't had an unusual number of fuel system issues.

But some folks can't get a tank of E-10 and get three blocks away without issues.

That is interesting to me.
We are going to get 20 percent ethanol by law in a couple of years.
When I lived in Denver we had a bunch of trucks disabled from water in the tanks.
That was at a commercial station in Commerce City.
I forget the name of it but I went to fill my 2002 F-250 at the same station in the dead of winter and got back into take a phone call.
The pump never shut off and I didnt figure it out untill I saw the fuel running across the parking lot.
About 100 gallons or so.
We had to get a lawyer before they decided to pay for it.
I think I still have the credit card someplace.
I wonder if it was the same place that screwed your uncle over

 

[dave s]

Anything other than my vehicles here in central PA gets ethanol free. Period. The small carbs end up with a a tiny bit of corrosion where the water sits in the bowls. One summer I had to pull the carbs and clean them on both ATV's, two of the riding mowers, and replace both my weed eater and my leaf blower, both Stihl products. After that we are ethanol free. The Stihl mechanic said the water causes a small corrosion issue resulting in a fine "grit" in the carbs. He claims ethanol has been the biggest boost to his business compared to any other repair! This is just my experience so don't beat me up! Lol.

 

[thegawd]

That's my experience as well Dave, until I stopped buying ethanol laced gas. I pretty much always had to remove most of the carbs I have and clean them, sometimes more than once a year. These engines are old and were not designed for ethanol though.

I dont know but now a days I only fill up cans with Shell Supreme ethanol free fuel since regular ethanol free dosent exsist anymore. I use this in my sierra since it sits more than it is driven but use Shells top tier regular in the burb.

Al

 

[LC2NLS6]

I always assume fuel supply is the issue, ie, weak factory style fuel pumps. Also verify voltage to the pump and good grounds on the harness.

I went to Holley Sniper EFI, ooking at a Terminator EFI next as it has the trans controller built in, but its $3200...and my truck was only $565...

 

[1989GMCSIERRA]

After my experience at work last week, I'm not completely against the parts-cannon approach on older vehicles. I was working with a trainee, troubleshooting a 40 year old generator, and every time we ran it up it had different symptoms. We replaced a few parts that straight up failed, swapped in a few hard-to-diagnose pieces with known good but used pieces, tossed a DOA new part, tightened entire racks of spade-style terminal boards, and replaced half a dozen switches that worked right 95% of the time. The parts that mostly worked were the core of why other technicians had tried and failed to diagnose it.

The older a vehicle is, the more reasonable the parts-cannon becomes. That said, troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot. Don't use the parts cannon just because you got tired of troubleshooting.

We legitimately wrote up over 80 hours of labor troubleshooting that generator. At what point is it worthwhile to R/R the known trouble parts without diagnosis?

What you’re describing…..that’s not parts cannon repair. That’s troubleshooting and replacing/repairing as needed/warranted.
parts cannon is not knowing what’s wrong and guessing at the repair by replacing various/numerous parts at the customers expense without knowing if that is the part that’s actually broken. That’s the difference between a real mechanic and what passes as a mechanic today.
I may not have dealership experience but I have what amounts to a full auto shop in my house including a 4 post lift with air jacks. The reason I work on my own cars is because most “mechanics” today are just parts changers and imo will change out parts that are not needed and charge for it.

lots of mechanics today are parts changers. Im willing to bet cold hard cash if I take my all original 1983 Trans Am in to a Chevy dealer 99% of the mechanics there will have no idea how to rebuild the 4 barrel carb. Or change points on a ignition. Or set dwell. Hell it still has a mechanical fuel pump. I’m not talking about older mechanics. Those guys know their stuff. Younger guys who have grown on on fuel injection and c9mpiterized systems don’t know how to work on old cars.

 

[Erik the Awful]

Nobody pays for diagnosis. Parts changers make the profit. You just have to have good excuses when the fix doesn't work and you want the customer to pay again.

 

[someotherguy]

lots of mechanics today are parts changers. Im willing to bet cold hard cash if I take my all original 1983 Trans Am in to a Chevy dealer 99% of the mechanics there will have no idea how to rebuild the 4 barrel carb. Or change points on a ignition. Or set dwell. Hell it still has a mechanical fuel pump. I’m not talking about older mechanics. Those guys know their stuff. Younger guys who have grown on on fuel injection and c9mpiterized systems don’t know how to work on old cars.

I sure hope you're not expecting us to believe your all-original 1983 T/A has points ignition. They've been HEI since the mid 70's.. no need for me to get out my dwell meter to work on that.

By the way, who around here still has a dwell meter? Hell, I've got a really sharp Snap-On tach/dwell with cylinder shorting function.. all but totally useless for anything modern.

Richard