Narrowing down common TBI problems...

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Schurkey

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We did the parts cannon thing. IAC, EGR, tune up. . .. I'm sure it was the coolant sensor that did the trick. It has not run this good in 20 years. I think all the parts I replaced contributed to the end result, not just the coolant temp sensor.
Only if all the parts you replaced were faulty.

"Good" parts don't make a vehicle run bad.


After 30 years it doesn't hurt to change all those things out. All together it wasn't $400 and worth every penny if you want a great running dependable ride.
But if you can achieve the same result for $30, why is it "better" to spend $400?

You're rationalizing your effort and expenditure to justify not doing proper diagnosis.
 

LC2NLS6

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Install wideband O2 sensor as well just like a carb setup should use to tune. Also knowing fuel pressure under load is key. Check power and grounds to fuel pump while replacing it.
 

PlayingWithTBI

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Install wideband O2 sensor as well just like a carb setup should use to tune.
That will help if you have the equipment and knowledge to tune your ECM/PCM's tables too. Otherwise the OE NBO2 should be sufficient for diagnostics.
 

1989GMCSIERRA

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Hey all, it seems like everyone with a TBI motor is trying to fix bad idle, lack of power, and poor fuel economy, I'm no different. Common issues, but the only problem is that there is rarely ever just one magical cure-all to these issues, people think they have the answer because it worked for them, but someone else will replace that same part (say the TPS or something) on their truck and it won't make a difference. Watching posts on the internet over the last two years has taught me that as much as people like to rag on the idea of throwing parts at a car, that's really the only solution for engines like these.

My truck is a 94 with the TBI 350, rebuilt 4L60E, 4x4, extended cab, 3.73 gears and a G80 and just over 268K miles without a major rebuild, a prime candidate for the everlasting TBI issues. In the past I did plugs, wires, cap and rotor, I've replaced the fuel filter, and one of the injectors were replaced ~12 years ago. Other than that, it's all stock!

Checking the SES lights shows that I had a code for a MAP sensor and the EGR, both of which could be causing these issues. So I started there, I scraped together what leftover money I had after bills tonight and bought a new MAP and IAC (SES said an EGR, but I didn't have the money and it'll get replaced anyways.) and if replacing those two parts made a difference, it was a minimal one. Idle improved slightly, it no longer stumbles when in gear and at a stop, but it's still not as smooth as it should be. Power improved slightly as well, it lights up the rear tires at a dead stop now when the pedal meets the metal, but after takeoff and when rowing through gears, power didn't improve much. Downshifts are torquier though!

Despite my truck being an automatic, it has a tach and one thing I've noticed about the motor is that it runs out of steam at about 3800 RPM, it'll usually go to 4500 RPM before it shifts, but it just seems like the motor is spinning, but its being choked by something. I know that the exhaust and the heads are major bottlenecks on these engines, but I've driven a low mileage 95 that was equipped just like mine and it had power until about 4100 RPM, and even when it shifted at 4500 it still had more power left then mine despite them both being completely stock motors. I'm guessing my issue is more with the intake rather than the exhaust. A few thoughts I've had is that the air filter is clogged and isn't allowing the engine to breathe enough, or maybe the fuel pressure regulator isn't getting enough fuel to the engine (not sure on that one though.) Whatever it is, it's choking up the engine, and that could be the root of my problems. (lid flip just makes it louder, no power difference for me)

a bit off topic, but my 0-60 times are around the 13s range, what are everyone else's? Is 13s normal for a 200hp 4x4? I got smoked by a friends stock 99 Ram with the 5.9, 4 auto, and 4x4, and he has a 3.42ish axle ratio!

Next paycheck will most likely be vacuum lines and other rubber stuff, nothing is visibly bad, hoses still are solid, but the gasket on the stock IAC fell apart when I took it out so I know the rubber isn't in great shape. EGR will also be next since it's a known issue.

As far as other suspects go, I'd say the fuel pressure regulator and injectors, the O2 sensor, or maybe the air filter as mentioned earlier.

Anyways, anyone have any thoughts or wanna add anything to this?

Well….some people throw parts at a truck because they cant/don’t diagnose.

ALWAYS start a diagnosis with a visual inspection before you pick up a tool. In fact the first tool you need is your eyes. Second is a good flashlight
Then start with testing of major components. Battery fully charged, fuel pressure within specific parameters. No wiring or hoses chewed damage or worn. No leaks of fluids or outside sources introducing fluids, corrosion, cracked hoses etc.
Then start with condition of components.
A multimeter and a service manual will tell you exactly how to test components.
I test a component before I consider it bad and needs replacement. The majority of sensors on my 89 GMC in fact all my vehicles are original components or factory replacement. In some cases I use known US made parts. There are enough dealers online that sell parts cheap enough that buying some unknown or counterfeit part made from chinesium isn’t worth my labor to do twice. In the past I have gone the round and round chasing or installing a bad Chinese made part and I don’t wanna deal with it. You rarely get counterfeit parts from a dealer.
If your truck is revving and not going anywhere it could be a slipping transmission. First thing is to check the fluid level and condition. You could have a clogged cat, fuel filter installed backwards, a broken hear riser flapper constricting airflow, bad coolant sensors, fuel injector wiring that’s grounding out. There is no exact reason. There are multiple reasons a nd very common ones that will cause close or same type of symptoms. But you still, need to check your own systems before you just say that has to be it.



TBI trucks run out of breath fairly soon. They aren’t high revving engines.
 
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Erik the Awful

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After my experience at work last week, I'm not completely against the parts-cannon approach on older vehicles. I was working with a trainee, troubleshooting a 40 year old generator, and every time we ran it up it had different symptoms. We replaced a few parts that straight up failed, swapped in a few hard-to-diagnose pieces with known good but used pieces, tossed a DOA new part, tightened entire racks of spade-style terminal boards, and replaced half a dozen switches that worked right 95% of the time. The parts that mostly worked were the core of why other technicians had tried and failed to diagnose it.

The older a vehicle is, the more reasonable the parts-cannon becomes. That said, troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot. Don't use the parts cannon just because you got tired of troubleshooting.

We legitimately wrote up over 80 hours of labor troubleshooting that generator. At what point is it worthwhile to R/R the known trouble parts without diagnosis?
 

thegawd

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Hey Erik, I know your a smart guy and know your ****. but I just want to make a suggestion. only run ethanol free fuel in that 40 year old engine and all of those symptoms wont appear. all of my old engines run like a top since I ditched ethanol, I mean first pull every time.

Al
 

Schurkey

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I'm not completely against the parts-cannon approach on older vehicles. I was working with a trainee, troubleshooting a 40 year old generator, and every time we ran it up it had different symptoms...

...The older a vehicle is, the more reasonable the parts-cannon becomes. That said, troubleshoot, troubleshoot, troubleshoot. Don't use the parts cannon just because you got tired of troubleshooting.
YES! Well-said, and thank you.

Replacing "suspect" parts is reasonable, AFTER you've done all you can with real diagnosis. Too many want to replace parts INSTEAD of diagnosis; or they fall into traps like thinking a "coolant temp sensor code" means the coolant temp sensor has to be defective--when it could be a problem with the CTS wire harness, or even the computer itself. Heck, it could be a low coolant level.

Another problem with "troubleshooting" is trying to assess problems when using CRAPPY DIAGNOSTIC EQUIPMENT. I just hate seeing people buy Chinese multimeters, compression testers, cheap-junk consumer-grade "scan tools" that turn out to be "code readers" that won't supply the REAL code, but substitute generic codes instead, etc. The only way diagnostic equipment helps is if you can trust it. If your diagnostic tools are LYING TO YOU, you're worse-off than not using them at all.
 

east302

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Checking the SES lights shows that I had a code for a MAP sensor and the EGR, both of which could be causing these issues.

PDF scans of the 1994 C/K service manuals can be downloaded here…

https://www.gmt400.com/threads/88-95-service-manuals.43575/

They will have the GM diagnostic procedures for each DTC.

Used copies of the manual sets can still be had on eBay, etc. Alldatadiy.com is an online subscription and has the same information (for 98, at least).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Erik the Awful

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Doh! Just saw that I missed this while on vacation.
Hey Erik, I know your a smart guy and know your ****. but I just want to make a suggestion. only run ethanol free fuel in that 40 year old engine and all of those symptoms wont appear. all of my old engines run like a top since I ditched ethanol, I mean first pull every time.
It was an A/M32-86D generator running a 4-71 Detroit Diesel on Jet A fuel. No ethanol there! Honestly, I've had LESS problems with ethanol gas in my lawn equipment. The non-ethanol kept clogging up the carburetors.
 
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