I knew they were tricky to tune and also that they're not on the same level strength-wise as a 4L80. But I also thought they were tougher than the 4L60 all this time. Doesn't the 4L80 just overrun every gear with a sprag? The clutch off then on has to happen at just the right time or you end up smoking the trans, the guy who makes the TCM OP used was telling me about that. I figure if there's a decent Camaro or Corvette tune to steal, that'd be the way to go. I'll have to crack open a stock tune for one and have another look at all the crap I was too scared to touch and see how much there really was. I'd tuned a CTSV a while back and wouldn't touch the shift timing stuff, but since it was speed density that messed up how much torque the ECM reported to the TCM so I bumped that constant by 10 or 15 percent and it made a big difference in how quick it shifted. It was plain wrong before I did that.