Headliner help

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Eveready

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I think the guy who redid it for you knew better and was just trying to do it fast and get it out the door. The problem is foam glued to foam. That backer has to be really clean. Good luck !
 

nhyrum

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There is no foam glued to foam. But the back of the vinyl is soft and fuzzy, and gluing that to the foam, the 3m stuff doesn't say it can do. Just a hard surface to cloth. The permatex mentions foam to foam, etc, and should bond the back of the vinyl to the foam, which is the only place any issue exists.
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Eveready

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There is an extra layer of "something' that the 3M would not bond to. I think you have a real mess on your hands. That guy must have known you were planning to move.
 

nhyrum

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I don't think he sabatoged his own work. Should have known better and/or in a rush? Maybe.

Anyway, I'm less worried with what happened, and more worried with getting it fixed

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RI Chevy guy

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have you looked into the pic headliners available from LMC Truck? I'm looking at them for my '96, seems they may have solved the problem altogether
 

sewlow

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Without pix, I'd say that there's one or three problems, or a combo of, causing the H/L to fall.
What kind of foam was used? Poly or closed cell?
The problem with poly foam is that the glue between that & the fabric has to applied in several light coats, with each allowed to dry thoroughly before the next is applied. The idea is to build up a skin of glue on the foam. Otherwise the glue will saturate the foam causing it to collapse down & stick to itself anytime it's touched during the install of the H/L material.
Some shops do not appy enough glue, knowing that too much creates the problem with it collapsing. They don't have the patience to apply the several light coats required to build up that skin of glue.
Closed cell foam needs to be completely & thoroughly scuffed with a fine wire brush or some 80 grit sandpaper. Up-n-down, side-to-side & at 45* angles in both directions. That foam has a skin already on the surface, but it's so slick that the glue can not glom onto it to create a bond strong enough to hold onto the H/L fabric.
The H/L material itself has to be fairly light weight. Regular vinyl can be used, but actual specific H/L material is pretty light weight in comparison.
The roof is a pretty severe environment. That H/L material has to be able to survive hot, cold, wind & moisture.
Summertime. Hot vehicle outside, cooled with A/C on the inside. The headliner is caught in the middle. Opposite in the winter.
Open the window @ 60mph & that wind is beating on the H/L.
Moisture due to condensation or rain with the windows open.
Add in a material that's too heavy, improper glueing technique or poor prep & next thing you know, you're wearing it.

Like I said, without pix, all I can do is throw out non-specific generalities.
 
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nhyrum

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Here is a picture of the back of the vinyl and the foam layer. It doesn't look like either of the foam types mentioned after googling them.
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nhyrum

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Honestly, I really like the liner. It's just a simple, clean look, and the color pretty much matches my interior color nuts on, and was something he had on hand.
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sewlow

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That glue used, judging by the color, is called Dap Weldwood Trim & Landau Adhesive.
...and there certainly wasn't enough used. Especially for a non-headliner type material. That fuzzy backing can cause probs when an insufficient amount of glue is sprayed.
I can also see that there's just been a quick light coat applied. Certainly not enough & haphazardly, too. The glue is yellow & it should be a solid color across the whole back of the fabric. It needs to applied in nice even coats. Like painting a vehicle. Each pass of the spray pattern should cover 50% of the previous one.
Both the foam & the fabric need to have a coat of the glue.
I'd be giving both at least 3 dustings of the glue. The first being the lightest. This helps to prevent the following coats of glue from soaking through to the fabric's face.
The 3rd go with the glue can be a fair bit heavier than the first.
Each time a layer of glue is sprayed, it must be allowed to flash off & become dry to the touch.
The glue itself is held in suspension in a solvent base. As it flashes, it breathes off the solvent. Try glueing stuff together before the solvent dissipitates & that gas gets trapped between the layers of the fabrics.
This will either cause bubbles or complete failure of the bond.
Once the two fabrics have been stuck together, they must be rolled with a hand roller. This what creates the near permanent sticktion. This is important!
No panel with any type of fabric/vinyl/leather leaves my shop without being rolled first.
Just sticking things together by rubbing by hand will not guarantee that the glue will hold. Especially with a headliner, where it's only the glue itself that is suspending the weight of the fabric.
You can do this at home. There a couple of different glues available at most home improvement stores that are acceptable.
3M '76' or 3M '90' I prefer the '90'. Stronger formulation. The '76' will still work, though.
It's not cheap. Last can I bought was over $35.00(cdn.)
Use it in the same manner as previously described.
When I do use this glue, I like to do the first coat across the material & H/L panel. The second, coat 90* to that first one. Up-n-down. 3rd. & fourth at 45*.
Light coats!
The 3M glues have a tip that not only have the ability to be twist the fan pattern of the glue in any direction you want, but are also infinitely adjutable from Low to High.

This is one type of roller in my toolbox. This is the one I'd recommend for an H/L. Medium pressure. You don't really need to lay real weight into it to create a good bond.

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