C2500 Suburban new front springs installed. Fun new noises!

[whiteboyslo]

This isn't really a 'call for help' as much as it is a spot to write down some notes that may help others...

I spent most of this Memorial Day weekend under the Suburban replacing some suspension parts badly in need of replacing. I had already replaced tie rods (inner, outer, sleeve), shocks, and sway bar soft parts. This weekend was ball joints, but I decided to go all out. Instead of just replacing the ball joints, I went for it and replaced the entire control arm, top and bottom both sides. And while I had it apart, I figured new springs and insulators couldn't hurt either.

So, in all, the following work was done this weekend:

• New UCA and LCA, ball joints and bushings included (Moog)
• Camber knock-outs removed. Cam bolts replaced, though likely didn't need it (ACDelco)
• New springs installed. Went with the Heavy Duty and not the Severe Duty since I figured the Severe Duty was likely more for folks running a plow or something heavy like that (Moog)
• New spring insulators installed (ACDelco)
• Wheel bearings and seals replaced. Rotors and races still looked fine
• New ABS sensors / dust shields ATTEMPTED to install, but the hole in the shield wouldn't clear the spindle. ARGH!

Most of this was straight-forward, but the springs are a ***** to install! Biggest issue is the spring being too long to have in both the upper bucket and the LCA at the same time. This is obviously where a spring compressor comes in, but there is no way a ~1500lb/in spring is going to be SAFELY compressed enough to clear the bucket for install; the bucket is too deep (yes, I tried). So, using a combination of a 3-ton jack, a 4' pry bar, heavy duty ratchet straps used a come-along to keep the spring from flying back out at me, and a bit of ingenuity, I got them in. The ends of the coils were within about 1/4" of the tab on the LCA where they're meant to be aligned, so I figured 'good enough'. I also put the spring in with the flat end facing up, which I THINK is right. The stock springs have a round cross-section on both ends, so I was guessing here.

So, on the maiden voyage, all is feeling nice and tight, with the only apparent issue being a need for an alignment. Well, that is, until I hit a speed bump. Now, these aren't hardcore speedbumps; these are the 'hey we have kids in the neighborhood; slow it down!' speedbumps that most people reasonably take at 10-15 MPH. I hit those, and many fun noises came from the front, mostly spring-related. ARGH!!!!!

So now I'm easily 12+ hours into this whole thing (yes, I'm THAT awesome) and I have a squeaky clunky truck to show for it. Getting ready to take it to a shop and have them fix whatever I screwed up right now. My guess is I don't have the coils seated correctly. Hopefully they don't laugh TOO hard. I'll post back with whatever the results are.

Admittedly, a LOT of that time came from trying to Engineer a way to get the dang spring in. I Googled, I Youtubed, I Chiltoned, I Haynesed, but I couldn't find anything dealing with how in the heck to do this in a way that made sense. I'm curious if anyone else has a more elegant solution that I should have tried, not that I plan to ever ever EVER do this job again, lol!

Mike

 

[RichLo]

cut them in half before installing

but seriously, did you try the spring compressor that goes on the inside of the spring or on the outside?

 

[whiteboyslo]

cut them in half before installing

but seriously, did you try the spring compressor that goes on the inside of the spring or on the outside?

I watched a few videos where guys made it look so easy. Put in spring, raise LCA, attach ball joint, done. Then I realized they were all installing lowering springs. Lucky bastids.

I did have both compressor types available. The outer style wouldn't work because the threaded rods would interfere either with the upper bucket or LCA. I TRIED the internal style, the kind with hooks on one end and a plate on the other. First attempt, I put the plate under a coil. No dice. It interferes much like the outer style. Next I tried putting the plate UNDER the LCA, running the threaded rod up through the hole in the LCA for the shock. Essentially, this combines the LCA and spring into a single unit that is then lifted/rotated into place. Only problem with that is that I still could not clear the upper bucket. The only way to clear would have been to compress to the point where the coils were actually touching. Scary, to say the least.

Mike

 

[whiteboyslo]

Well, ain't this fun...

FINALLY got the truck back today. That's 2.5 weeks for those keeping score, but in fairness I told the shop I wasn't in a hurry in hopes they'd hook me up. They totally did, but they ended up putting the stock springs and LCAs in. They tore it apart over and over and couldn't get the noises to go away (shop is on my way home and I saw them working on it a few times, so I don't doubt them). These aren't yokels, either. These guys build some gnarly drag vehicles and LOVE bowties! The owner always talks to me forever about all the GMT400s he's owned over the years and how much he loves mine, so I really trust these guys.

So here's where it gets more fun. Rock Auto doesn't want to let me return one of the LCAs because I threw out the box, and they said the parts need to be in NEW condition for a refund. Well, you guys can guess what these things look like after being in and out of the truck a few times and it's definitely NOT new!!!

So not only are they trying to hose me out of $300+ for the parts, they want to turn around and sell these USED AND DEFECTIVE parts to some other guy!

The problem is either the O.D. on the spring or the pocket stamped in the LCA. Basically, the spring isn't sitting down in the pocket all the way. I'll try to get some pics up later.

I contacted Moog and they said I definitely have the right PNs.

So, yeah. $300+ in crap parts and about the same to the mechanic later, I now have original LCAs and springs with the same worn out ball joints. Im going to take it back and have the ball joints replaced in the original arms. The mechanic is totally cool with me bringing my own parts, so that's cool. Guess where I WON'T be buying them from, though!

Mike

 

[whiteboyslo]

As a final update to this...

I eventually had to go through PayPal to resolve this. Rock Auto stopped conversing with me, even after I opened the claim with PayPal. Thankfully, PayPal nearly always sides with the buyer. They had me send the parts back to Rock Auto, and I had my money back in 3 days.

So, I'm now done with Rock Auto. Shame, because I had used them for years, but I won't give them another opportunity to burn me, nor would I risk buying known bad parts they apparently try to pawn off to the next victim.

As for the truck, I went ahead and bought the premium AC Delco lower ball joints from Amazon and had them put in. After the alignment, it drives VERY nicely. I still have to address the worn rag joint (parts on the way), but otherwise I'm very happy with the net result.

Mike

 

[Jared Jackson]

I once bought a re-man MAF for a older toyota pickup from them. The part came in and would not fit the intake hoses...

It was a Cardone part. The box was the right part number, they even stamped the right part number on the part. But, I crossed referenced the OE part number that was still on the plastic housing for the electronics and found that it was NOT the right MAF. They mistakenly stamped the wrong part number on it. It was a toyota MAF and it looked similar, but the hose inlets and outlets were different.

Try explaining this through the online return form. However, in RA's defense, they did give me my money back. I just hope to God they didn't throw this part back into stock since I did all the research and told them exactly what the actual part number for that MAF should be and that it is NOT what they had it labeled as.

I have never had a problem with RA, but I never liked the fact that if you had a problem, you couldn't talk to a person. That is the one thing that brick and mortar stores will always have over RA, a person who is there and dedicated to helping you fix your problem regardless of what they have to do. If you were my customer and I worked at Oreilly's (like I did in College), I would have gotten you what you needed and slapped a pink warranty tag on whatever you screwed up and sent it back to the warehouse. Your continued business is worth way more to me than what we would lose in those LCA's.

 

[HotWheelsBurban]

Yep this is why online is just fancy mail order. Much better if you can cultivate/work with someone at your local parts store that knows what they are doing so you can work directly with them if there's a problem. My o'Reilly lady has always steered me in the right direction (pun intended), the only time it was the wrong part first time was because of an incorrect repair someone else did. Only thing is that she doesn't work 7 days a week....talking to an actual person is always best