4L60E rebuild. What did I get myself into...? :P

[BC K1500]

teardown your transmission first and then order parts. I would order a complete kit from Dana @ Probuilt Automatics myself. You get what you pay for parts wise. Have you done any research on rebuilding a 4L60E or are you just going for it? There is a reason these shops charge $3500. Last unit I did was over $1500 (canadian) in just parts and that was without torque converter and also before covid! This is the time you can make yourself a killer unit, but there is more to it then just changing some clutches and new seals.

some tools that will be required:
dial indicator
feeler gauges
GOOD set of snapring pliers
specific bushing drivers
shop press and/or arbor press
lip seal installing tool (can make or buy)
seal installers and resizers for input and stator shaft (have seen DIY attempts make sure you buy extra seals)
tool to align pump
tool for low/reverse clutch pack
tool/fixture to disassemble input and reverse drum clutches

I would make friends with a transmission shop that can help you out. my first build trying to do stuff without proper tools was very frustrating. I eventually bought some basic stuff and over the years have bought more. Are you in the lower mainland?

I remember you offered tips on my other thread about rebuilding, Thank You!
I did quite intensive research on how to do it and what to watch for, I don't just jump in and tear into a projects
before I"m fairly confident I can do it. As I stated in my initial post, the transmission is already disassembled.

You must be registered for see images attach

What I got to do now is to clean everything and do a final inspection before ordering parts.

I think most people here misunderstand what I am doing here. I don't want to build a racing high performance rig, I'm just trying to get an old beater back on the road that will see maybe 6-10000km a year.

"making friends with a transmission shop" (unless I spend a bunch of money first at their shop) Is not really a thing anymore. It is almost impossible to find any shop that you can just bring a part in and do some work on for a reasonable price. I tried several times something like that. Shops now days just want the big jobs where they can charge big $$$ to do the whole job.

I'm in Burnaby btw, I remember you mentioned that you are close to YVR?

some tools that will be required:
dial indicator - I've never seen anyone mentioning needing one just for a simple rebuild?
feeler gauges - got them
GOOD set of snapring pliers - got them
specific bushing drivers - got them
shop press and/or arbor press - not really needed, I know how to use a hammer
lip seal installing tool (can make or buy) - Not a huge cost, I can buy one or rig up something...
seal installers and resizers for input and stator shaft (have seen DIY attempts make sure you buy extra seals) - I got to buy that for sure $30-40 on amazon
tool to align pump - easy to make
tool for low/reverse clutch pack - already made one
tool/fixture to disassemble input and reverse drum clutches - already made one same as above

It looks like you are quite knowledgeable, I would appreciate any advice you could spare.

^Agree'd with everything in his post.

And keep your timeframe in mind. Personally, I can do anything in my shop with enough time and motivation. Your motivation is saving money, are you still saving money after you buy all the special tools needed? Are those tools a 1-time use purchase (and be honest with yourself). Time, do you have a hard stop where you need to have it back together? If not, decide when it is getting to be to long of a project and bring it in to have somebody else finish it.

While time is an issue I can stretch it out if I need to.

You've posted, asking for advice. Here's my advice. I hate to be a downer here, but a transmission is not the sort of component that an amateur should mess with. I group myself in here as an amateur too. I'm exceptionally good at figuring things out, and fixing just about anything. But there is just too much that I don't know -- routine experience, which good transmission shops have, which I don't have -- for me to EVER bother with touching a transmission. Some things you can save a few dollars on. Rebuilding your own transmission, with limited experience, is NOT one of those things. I find ~$3k a bargain in getting a reliable transmission. $500-700 for a used one might be a decent, cheap alternative. One little check ball out of place, one minor incorrect measurement, and all of your work, all of your parts, could be out the window, and you're right back at square one. You gotta do what you gotta do, but from one truck guy to another, I'd advise you to reconsider. (I recently had my transmission rebuilt, with a few upgrades and a shift kit. $3,400 out the door. I would do it again in a heartbeat.)

Thank you for your advice. I know what you mean.
I was the same opinion as you. However, it is either I do it myself or it wont be done as $$$ is tight right now. I am fairly detail oriented and if I didn't think I could do it I would not have started at all. At the end of the day it's nuts and bolts, seals (oh boy, lots of seals...), and a whole lot of paying attention to make sure everything goes together the right way.

 

[BC K1500]

the thing with DIY transmission buildint is are you prepared for this to take weeks or even months? the first unit i did took me 3 months. i started with a bad core so i ended up having to get the pump machined, planetaries rebuilt, someone had swapped in an early input drum during a previous rebuild so i had to source one, i had no press or bushing drivers so i had to get the bushings installed at a shop which means packing up everything and taking it there, clutch clearances wernt right so i had to order different thicknesses to get clearance right. are you prepared to pull the valve body or the whole unit if things are not right? because if you're not and end up taking it to a shop the money spent was for nothing. most shops won't reuse parts even if they are "new" its not worth their time to R&R a unit again, they will sell you everything so they dont have comebacks. sure you can slap a unit together and put new seals and clutches in it and hope for the best, but this aint no th350 or 4l80e. the 4l60e has chronic problems that need to be corrected if you want any sort of longevity.

All the internal (expensive components) seem to be in good shape. The pump has the 13 vein rotor installed.

I'm starting to think the cause of the failure was the blown input shaft seal? I'll see when I do the cleaning and final inspection.

 

[C2164]

Highly recommend Sonnax for parts and reference and upgraded parts. I purchased a pretty good set of tools for the rebuild on a 4L60e a couple of years ago. There are some great videos online or DVD that are I would say a necessity to view and follow.

A transmission handling fixture, either bench mount or the type that mounts to an engine stand is very useful to allow you to rotate it as you assemble it.

While I had rebuilt engines and manual transmissions over the years, I had steered away from automatic transmissions. Turned out not to be difficult, just take your time and have the right tools.

 

[Erik the Awful]

some tools that will be required:
dial indicator - I've never seen anyone mentioning needing one just for a simple rebuild?
feeler gauges - got them
GOOD set of snapring pliers - got them
specific bushing drivers - got them
shop press and/or arbor press - not really needed, I know how to use a hammer
lip seal installing tool (can make or buy) - Not a huge cost, I can buy one or rig up something...
seal installers and resizers for input and stator shaft (have seen DIY attempts make sure you buy extra seals) - I got to buy that for sure $30-40 on amazon
tool to align pump - easy to make
tool for low/reverse clutch pack - already made one
tool/fixture to disassemble input and reverse drum clutches - already made one same as above

I remember using my dial indicator, I just can't remember what I measured. Fortunately decent dial indicators are cheap now.
This is one of those cases where a shop press is significantly safer to use than a hammer.
The lip seal installing tool is simply a piece of tubing with a 1" loop of safety wire crimped in the end. Mine has .025" on one end and .032 on the other.
I used a piece of plastic soda bottle for my teflon seal installer. I then used hose clamps to squeeze them back down to size. If you're careful it's safe and easy.
I doubled up two 8" hose clamps that I borrowed from work to align the front pump. It worked great.
The cheapest tool for the low/reverse clutch pack is simply two metal plates cut to fit, a threaded rod, and two nuts.

I had three books, two YouTube videos, and fuzzy memories from transmission class, and I still didn't have all the info I needed for rebuilding the transmission. Seal facing is extremely important and hard to find. Some time in the next few weeks I intend to put the transmission I rebuilt into my truck, and we'll see if I got the seal facings correct. Everything else I'm pretty sure of.

That kit looks like a decent starting point. The one thing I kept hearing was to make sure to get "high friction clutches". I got the Raybestos high frictions. The kit doesn't include bushings, and you're going to need at least one. A wider band, whether you get kevlar or regular friction material, is recommended. It's a minor pain in the butt to fit. An upgraded reaction shell is recommended because they have a tendency to crack around the base. Some people like the GMT800 five-planet rear planetary gearset while others say it's no better, but I know at least one person here has demolished a factory four-planet. I got the AC Delco five-planet reaction carrier (p/n 24241244) for a little shy of $250 - it was the most expensive part in the rebuild.

Check your plate between your valve body and case carefully! I had a ball that was about to punch through mine. It also doesn't come in your rebuild kit.

 

[NoDak2500]

Technical Video makes or made (looks like it may be still available from pro-built automatics website, not many hits in a quick google search) a Rebuilding The 4l60e DVD that I found invaluable when I decided to attempt to rebuild a 4l60e with no prior experience. I remember it being very detailed. I also used the ASTG 4l60e rebuild manual. I also watched some of the videos on YouTube by user Automatic Transmission for one of my rebuilds, and remember them being helpful as well.
It's been around 10 years and the details are fuzzy, but I don't recall using a dial indicator for anything. I'm certain I didn't use a shop press, as I didn't have access to one. I do remember using various bushing/bearing drivers and possibly a camshaft bearing installer for the bushing deep in the case. I did buy the specialty tools for the Teflon seals and lip seals (my lip seal tool used plastic cones as well as some sort of spray to temporarily freeze the seals in a compressed position so they would just drop into place. I got frustrated with the wire loop lip seal install tool.), as well as a clutch spring compressor tool. I also remember purchasing some Sonnax bushings. I'm sure I ordered some additional Sonnax parts, but I can't remember what. I also made a fixture to hold the transmission on an engine stand. I used some steel bar stock, steel pipe and some bolts and nuts and welded it all together. It's definitely not something you have to have to do the job, but I found it did make the process of handling the transmission during rebuilding easier (I didn't use it for the 4l60e, but fabbed it up and used it for a 4l80e).

I would add that if money is tight, make sure you can afford for your rebuild to fail, since stuff happens and sometimes whatever can go wrong, will! My first 4l60e rebuild was initially great. However, the late 90's Chevy Blazer I was working on used stupid hairpin steel clips to hold the transmission cooler lines in the cooler. After about week of driving, one of the clips that I replaced during re-installation failed (It's certainly possible it could also have been my screw up. Either way, same end result), allowing the cooler line to pop out of the radiator and pump the transmission dry. Long story short, I had to pull it back apart and rebuild it again with all new parts, but for some reason the output shaft wouldn't spin freely. After tearing it back down several times, I never could figure out why, and I ended up putting in a salvage yard transmission. It ended up being a relatively expensive experience (still cheaper than paying a shop to rebuild it, IIRC), but I did learn that I could rebuild an automatic transmission, so not a complete waste. About 7 years ago I decided to take a stab at rebuilding the 4l80e in the 1994 K2500 I bought. I have only recently put the truck back together and started driving it, but that transmission is working great after rebuilding (so far!).

 

[tayto]

I remember you offered tips on my other thread about rebuilding, Thank You!
I did quite intensive research on how to do it and what to watch for, I don't just jump in and tear into a projects
before I"m fairly confident I can do it. As I stated in my initial post, the transmission is already disassembled.

You must be registered for see images attach

What I got to do now is to clean everything and do a final inspection before ordering parts.

I think most people here misunderstand what I am doing here. I don't want to build a racing high performance rig, I'm just trying to get an old beater back on the road that will see maybe 6-10000km a year.

"making friends with a transmission shop" (unless I spend a bunch of money first at their shop) Is not really a thing anymore. It is almost impossible to find any shop that you can just bring a part in and do some work on for a reasonable price. I tried several times something like that. Shops now days just want the big jobs where they can charge big $$$ to do the whole job.

I'm in Burnaby btw, I remember you mentioned that you are close to YVR?

some tools that will be required:
dial indicator - I've never seen anyone mentioning needing one just for a simple rebuild?
feeler gauges - got them
GOOD set of snapring pliers - got them
specific bushing drivers - got them
shop press and/or arbor press - not really needed, I know how to use a hammer
lip seal installing tool (can make or buy) - Not a huge cost, I can buy one or rig up something...
seal installers and resizers for input and stator shaft (have seen DIY attempts make sure you buy extra seals) - I got to buy that for sure $30-40 on amazon
tool to align pump - easy to make
tool for low/reverse clutch pack - already made one
tool/fixture to disassemble input and reverse drum clutches - already made one same as above

It looks like you are quite knowledgeable, I would appreciate any advice you could spare.




While time is an issue I can stretch it out if I need to.


Thank you for your advice. I know what you mean.
I was the same opinion as you. However, it is either I do it myself or it wont be done as $$$ is tight right now. I am fairly detail oriented and if I didn't think I could do it I would not have started at all. At the end of the day it's nuts and bolts, seals (oh boy, lots of seals...), and a whole lot of paying attention to make sure everything goes together the right way.

you will need press to do a few things. i have most tools you will need but you'd have to come to me, generally dont loan stuff out. i have bushing driver set as well. the main thing you will need to focus is fixing some problem internal leak areas as well as clutch&band clearances. i also have a vac tester to go through your vb if you are interested, this is often a skipped step. i can walk you through all this over the phone if thats easier, i can pm my # if you are interested.

 

[Schurkey]

It looks like I'm in for an adventure.

Yes. A good attitude to have.

Is there a way to tell the year just by looking at the case?

Bolt-on bellhousings started in...'96? '97?

Under the grime, there should be a paper tag and/or a metal tag or numbers inscribed into the case with more info. Small font. Look close just above the pan.

The input shaft supposed to have a seal that I couldn't find.

You must be registered for see images attach

Could the missing seal disintegrated and cause the transmission to fail? Where could have it gone?

It's still there, about 1/4" from the narrow end of the input shaft. Rubber O-ring that's gone flat from age and compression (cold-flow). If your torque-converter clutch didn't work properly, that O-ring is maybe why.

The output shaft bushing seem to be in very bad condition.

Make sure your driveshaft isn't bent, is still properly-balanced, and the U-joints are pristine. The yoke that slides into the bushing can wear--make sure it's still usable. Doesn't take much of a wobble in the driveshaft to make life hard on the bushing.

 

[BC K1500]

I remember using my dial indicator, I just can't remember what I measured. Fortunately decent dial indicators are cheap now.
This is one of those cases where a shop press is significantly safer to use than a hammer.
The lip seal installing tool is simply a piece of tubing with a 1" loop of safety wire crimped in the end. Mine has .025" on one end and .032 on the other.
I used a piece of plastic soda bottle for my teflon seal installer. I then used hose clamps to squeeze them back down to size. If you're careful it's safe and easy.
I doubled up two 8" hose clamps that I borrowed from work to align the front pump. It worked great.
The cheapest tool for the low/reverse clutch pack is simply two metal plates cut to fit, a threaded rod, and two nuts.

I had three books, two YouTube videos, and fuzzy memories from transmission class, and I still didn't have all the info I needed for rebuilding the transmission. Seal facing is extremely important and hard to find. Some time in the next few weeks I intend to put the transmission I rebuilt into my truck, and we'll see if I got the seal facings correct. Everything else I'm pretty sure of.

That kit looks like a decent starting point. The one thing I kept hearing was to make sure to get "high friction clutches". I got the Raybestos high frictions. The kit doesn't include bushings, and you're going to need at least one. A wider band, whether you get kevlar or regular friction material, is recommended. It's a minor pain in the butt to fit. An upgraded reaction shell is recommended because they have a tendency to crack around the base. Some people like the GMT800 five-planet rear planetary gearset while others say it's no better, but I know at least one person here has demolished a factory four-planet. I got the AC Delco five-planet reaction carrier (p/n 24241244) for a little shy of $250 - it was the most expensive part in the rebuild.

Check your plate between your valve body and case carefully! I had a ball that was about to punch through mine. It also doesn't come in your rebuild kit.

Thanks you for the tips.

Technical Video makes or made (looks like it may be still available from pro-built automatics website, not many hits in a quick google search) a Rebuilding The 4l60e DVD that I found invaluable when I decided to attempt to rebuild a 4l60e with no prior experience. I remember it being very detailed. I also used the ASTG 4l60e rebuild manual. I also watched some of the videos on YouTube by user Automatic Transmission for one of my rebuilds, and remember them being helpful as well.
It's been around 10 years and the details are fuzzy, but I don't recall using a dial indicator for anything. I'm certain I didn't use a shop press, as I didn't have access to one. I do remember using various bushing/bearing drivers and possibly a camshaft bearing installer for the bushing deep in the case. I did buy the specialty tools for the Teflon seals and lip seals (my lip seal tool used plastic cones as well as some sort of spray to temporarily freeze the seals in a compressed position so they would just drop into place. I got frustrated with the wire loop lip seal install tool.), as well as a clutch spring compressor tool. I also remember purchasing some Sonnax bushings. I'm sure I ordered some additional Sonnax parts, but I can't remember what. I also made a fixture to hold the transmission on an engine stand. I used some steel bar stock, steel pipe and some bolts and nuts and welded it all together. It's definitely not something you have to have to do the job, but I found it did make the process of handling the transmission during rebuilding easier (I didn't use it for the 4l60e, but fabbed it up and used it for a 4l80e).

I would add that if money is tight, make sure you can afford for your rebuild to fail, since stuff happens and sometimes whatever can go wrong, will! My first 4l60e rebuild was initially great. However, the late 90's Chevy Blazer I was working on used stupid hairpin steel clips to hold the transmission cooler lines in the cooler. After about week of driving, one of the clips that I replaced during re-installation failed (It's certainly possible it could also have been my screw up. Either way, same end result), allowing the cooler line to pop out of the radiator and pump the transmission dry. Long story short, I had to pull it back apart and rebuild it again with all new parts, but for some reason the output shaft wouldn't spin freely. After tearing it back down several times, I never could figure out why, and I ended up putting in a salvage yard transmission. It ended up being a relatively expensive experience (still cheaper than paying a shop to rebuild it, IIRC), but I did learn that I could rebuild an automatic transmission, so not a complete waste. About 7 years ago I decided to take a stab at rebuilding the 4l80e in the 1994 K2500 I bought. I have only recently put the truck back together and started driving it, but that transmission is working great after rebuilding (so far!).

There is a very good video series by Transmission Bench for disassembly and reassembly.
I know there is a chance for failure but nothing is guaranteed in life, sometimes we got to take a chance.
Thank you.

you will need press to do a few things. i have most tools you will need but you'd have to come to me, generally dont loan stuff out. i have bushing driver set as well. the main thing you will need to focus is fixing some problem internal leak areas as well as clutch&band clearances. i also have a vac tester to go through your vb if you are interested, this is often a skipped step. i can walk you through all this over the phone if thats easier, i can pm my # if you are interested.

That is a very generous offer of you. Thank you very much!
I completely understand not loaning tools, I would never ask for that.
I'm not sure what is or how a vacuum test is performed? I would sure like to learn about that.
Thank you.

Under the grime, there should be a paper tag and/or a metal tag or numbers inscribed into the case with more info. Small font. Look close just above the pan.

It's still there, about 1/4" from the narrow end of the input shaft. Rubber O-ring that's gone flat from age and compression (cold-flow). If your torque-converter clutch didn't work properly, that O-ring is maybe why.


Make sure your driveshaft isn't bent, is still properly-balanced, and the U-joints are pristine. The yoke that slides into the bushing can wear--make sure it's still usable. Doesn't take much of a wobble in the driveshaft to make life hard on the bushing.

ID tag is not present, its definitely a rebuilt unit. Ill look for the numbers on the case once I managed t clean off the dirt and grime.

If that is the seal it sure doesn't look good. I'll check it tomorrow.

Its a 4x4 so the output shaft is connected to the transfer case not to the u joint. However the TC bearings were gone so I had to rebuild that not long ago.

Thank you.

 

[BC K1500]

I finally got around to clean the case and bell housing.

I inspected all the clutch packs and they all in good shape except the first set in the input drum (3-4?).
All major parts seem to be ok. I'll hopefully be able to clean all the interior parts this week.

As of now I have following parts in my shopping list;
bushings
ATP Master Transmission Repair Kit
Band
GM Genuine transmission solenoid
ATP B165 Filter
PIONEER 771003
TransGo 7-2P Corvette servo piston assembly
SONNAX 4L60ELB1
High RPM (3-4/FWD) Clutch Spring Kit

Anything else I should ad to the list?

 

[tayto]

if you are reusing clutches then just get a seal kit.... which clutches do not look good please post pics. don't get the sonnax wide band! just get a borg warner HE band and make aure your reverse input drum is flat and not dished, if not replace it.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=12272361

i would also try get a corvette servo, sonnax boost valve and 3l4 springs

More Information for TRANSGO 72P

More Information for SONNAX 4L60ELB1

More Information for TRANSGO 7CS

I will try and get a parts list together for the 3/4 clutch pack for you in the next day.