Electric fans suck!

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Frank Enstein

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I get lots of overheating calls @ work. I define overheating as running outside of 5 degrees +/- of the thermostat opening temp/fan engage temp.

#1 Too much antifreeze in the mix.
I recommend zero degrees F freezing protection or 10 degrees F colder than the vehicle will ever see.
You need some antifreeze for corrosion protection and water pump lubrication.
The radiator manufacturers I have spoken to do not recommend distilled water to cut the antifreeze but rather drinking/mineral water. They say the distilled water will leach metal out of the cooling system.

You can run a product like Redline "Super Cool with Water Wetter" or Royal Purple "Purple Ice" and just water with no antifreeze if the vehicle will NEVER see freezing temperatures. Those products do not have any freezing protection at all.
Those products will need to be replenished every other year. They will prevent corrosion and lube the water pump seals too.
Those products can be used with antifreeze and it still helps heat transfer.

#2 Not enough ignition timing @ idle
This is mostly carbureted guys that "my buddy" told them to get a mechanical advance only distributor because the vacuum advance is for emissions/will cost 50 horsepower.

#3 Overheating @ highway speeds
Often this is poor airflow management.
Make sure any air that comes in the grille HAS to go through the radiator to get out.
Make sure All the air pulled through the fan HAS to go through the radiator.
You would be impressed by how much the coolant temp will drop when an efficient air dam is fitted.
It's not as much shoving more air into the radiator but pulling the air out of the engine compartment by creating a low pressure area behind the radiator.

I fooled around with this on my Firebird a long time ago. I made a ridiculous air dam that nearly touched the ground out of flashing and duct tape and let it beat itself to death with normal driving. I then made a real air dam 1/2" shorter (less deep) and it dropped my coolant temp 15 degrees F on the highway.
I did the same with side skirts and dropped it another 10 degrees F. I learned lots that summer!

One of the problems with electric fans is there is no standard for how cfm is measured.
A 2400 Perma-cool fan that draws 10 amps Flex-a-lite will call that same fan 1050 cfm.
The only company that lists it correctly is Spal. They tell what voltage, amperage, rpm, and static restriction on their website.

As a decent rule of thumb 100 cfm per amp is generally correct.

I recommend at least 2400 cfm for primary cooling. I also sell the biggest highest cfm fan that will fit in the available space.
If you buy too much fan it won't run as long. If you don't buy enough fan you buy it twice.

If your vehicle runs hot @ idle but is fine on the highway an e-fan is a good choice. In most cases (NOT heavy towing) you don't need a fan above 30 mph if the airflow management is o.k.

If the engine runs at normal temps in traffic but the A/C isn't great @ low vehicle speeds an electric pusher fan can help.

Pusher fans are 20% less efficient than the same fan used as a puller fan.

If it won't keep cool on the highway you may need a more efficient radiator if all other factors have been dealt with.
 
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L31MaxExpress

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So, you have the option of keep trying to run a e-fan with all of the mods...

Or just a mechanical fan? How much trimming are you needing? Did you check what the Express Vans what first generation Express vans TD 6.5 or BBC have? Maybe the Express/8.1 combo?

I've got an 8.1/Allison combo from a 2500HD in my backyard... I forget that thing is back there...:rolleyes: let me know if you want to know what fan that combo ran. (I "think" it has the fan?...)

Otherwise, just run the Ford fan if that works...I certainly won't hate!

Edit: I wouldn't say E-Fans suck... maybe just not appropriate for your application?

Opening on the shroud is 20", it has two stiffening rings roughly 1" wide in the opening, the duramax fan is 20.75"

Fan on the 454 and 8.1 are a 5 bladed metal. The diesel has a 7 bladed metal. The Duramax blade is a common upgrade for the 6.5. The 454/8.1 34×17 double core van radiator is unobtanium at the moment.

Just going to throw the ford fan on for now. Zero doubt it will keep it cool.
 

L31MaxExpress

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I get lots of overheating calls @ work. I define overheating as running outside of 5 degrees +/- of the thermostat opening temp/fan engage temp.

#1 Too much antifreeze in the mix.
I recommend zero degrees F freezing protection or 10 degrees F colder than the vehicle will ever see.
You need some antifreeze for corrosion protection and water pump lubrication.
The radiator manufacturers I have spoken to do not recommend distilled water to cut the antifreeze but rather drinking/mineral water. They say the distilled water will leach metal out of the cooling system.

You can run a product like Redline "Super Cool with Water Wetter" or Royal Purple "Purple Ice" and just water with no antifreeze if the vehicle will NEVER see freezing temperatures. Those products do not have any freezing protection at all.
Those products will need to be replenished every other year. They will prevent corrosion and lube the water pump seals too.
Those products can be used with antifreeze and it still helps heat transfer.

#2 Not enough ignition timing @ idle
This is mostly carbureted guys that "my buddy" told them to get a mechanical advance only distributor because the vacuum advance is for emissions/will cost 50 horsepower.

#3 Overheating @ highway speeds
Often this is poor airflow management.
Make sure any air that comes in the grille HAS to go through the radiator to get out.
Make sure All the air pulled through the fan HAS to go through the radiator.
You would be impressed by how much the coolant temp will drop when an efficient air dam is fitted.
It's not as much shoving more air into the radiator but pulling the air out of the engine compartment by creating a low pressure area behind the radiator.

I fooled around with this on my Firebird a long time ago. I made a ridiculous air dam that nearly touched the ground out of flashing and duct tape and let it beat itself to death with normal driving. I then made a real air dam 1/2" shorter (less deep) and it dropped my coolant temp 15 degrees F on the highway.
I did the same with side skirts and dropped it another 10 degrees F. I learned lots that summer!

One of the problems with electric fans is there is no standard for how cfm is measured.
A 2400 Perma-cool fan that draws 10 amps Flex-a-lite will call that same fan 1050 cfm.
The only company that lists it correctly is Spal. They tell what voltage, amperage, rpm, and static restriction on their website.

As a decent rule of thumb 100 cfm per amp is generally correct.

I recommend at least 2400 cfm for primary cooling. I also sell the biggest highest cfm fan that will fit in the available space.
If you buy too much fan it won't run as long. If you don't buy enough fan you buy it twice.

If your vehicle runs hot @ idle but is fine on the highway an e-fan is a good choice. In most cases (NOT heavy towing) you don't need a fan above 30 mph if the airflow management is o.k.

If the engine runs at normal temps in traffic but the A/C isn't great @ low vehicle speeds an electric pusher fan can help.

Pusher fans are 20% less efficient than the same fan used as a puller fan.

If it won't keep cool on the highway you may need a more efficient radiator if all other factors have been dealt with.
I run 50/50 mix of Distilled water and Fleet Charge Heavy Duty truck coolant. Used this exact stuff in all my vehicles for the past 6+ years. Mineral water will build calcium scale in this area.

I have a big air dam that came factory.

You must be registered for see images attach
 

Frank Enstein

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Opening on the shroud is 20", it has two stiffening rings roughly 1" wide in the opening, the duramax fan is 20.75"

Fan on the 454 and 8.1 are a 5 bladed metal. The diesel has a 7 bladed metal. The Duramax blade is a common upgrade for the 6.5. The 454/8.1 34×17 double core van radiator is unobtanium at the moment.

Just going to throw the ford fan on for now. Zero doubt it will keep it cool.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-342j Is what I have in the Icechicken. A bit taller and no oil or trans cooler in it. Been in it 20 years. Had to notch the frame to make it fit!
These are my radiator hoses.
Been in as long as the radiator.
 

AuroraGirl

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I get lots of overheating calls @ work. I define overheating as running outside of 5 degrees +/- of the thermostat opening temp/fan engage temp.

#1 Too much antifreeze in the mix.
I recommend zero degrees F freezing protection or 10 degrees F colder than the vehicle will ever see.
You need some antifreeze for corrosion protection and water pump lubrication.
The radiator manufacturers I have spoken to do not recommend distilled water to cut the antifreeze but rather drinking/mineral water. They say the distilled water will leach metal out of the cooling system.

You can run a product like Redline "Super Cool with Water Wetter" or Royal Purple "Purple Ice" and just water with no antifreeze if the vehicle will NEVER see freezing temperatures. Those products do not have any freezing protection at all.
Those products will need to be replenished every other year. They will prevent corrosion and lube the water pump seals too.
Those products can be used with antifreeze and it still helps heat transfer.

#2 Not enough ignition timing @ idle
This is mostly carbureted guys that "my buddy" told them to get a mechanical advance only distributor because the vacuum advance is for emissions/will cost 50 horsepower.

#3 Overheating @ highway speeds
Often this is poor airflow management.
Make sure any air that comes in the grille HAS to go through the radiator to get out.
Make sure All the air pulled through the fan HAS to go through the radiator.
You would be impressed by how much the coolant temp will drop when an efficient air dam is fitted.
It's not as much shoving more air into the radiator but pulling the air out of the engine compartment by creating a low pressure area behind the radiator.

I fooled around with this on my Firebird a long time ago. I made a ridiculous air dam that nearly touched the ground out of flashing and duct tape and let it beat itself to death with normal driving. I then made a real air dam 1/2" shorter (less deep) and it dropped my coolant temp 15 degrees F on the highway.
I did the same with side skirts and dropped it another 10 degrees F. I learned lots that summer!

One of the problems with electric fans is there is no standard for how cfm is measured.
A 2400 Perma-cool fan that draws 10 amps Flex-a-lite will call that same fan 1050 cfm.
The only company that lists it correctly is Spal. They tell what voltage, amperage, rpm, and static restriction on their website.

As a decent rule of thumb 100 cfm per amp is generally correct.

I recommend at least 2400 cfm for primary cooling. I also sell the biggest highest cfm fan that will fit in the available space.
If you buy too much fan it won't run as long. If you don't buy enough fan you buy it twice.

If your vehicle runs hot @ idle but is fine on the highway an e-fan is a good choice. In most cases (NOT heavy towing) you don't need a fan above 30 mph if the airflow management is o.k.

If the engine runs at normal temps in traffic but the A/C isn't great @ low vehicle speeds an electric pusher fan can help.

Pusher fans are 20% less efficient than the same fan used as a puller fan.

If it won't keep cool on the highway you may need a more efficient radiator if all other factors have been dealt with.
Your theory about distilled water is not supported by science and I would like to see the credentials of these radiator companies
Because distilled water is water without the crap that reduces cooling system efficiency, that doesnt promote conductance, that doesnt deposit minerals, and the metal theory sounds more like using old style coolant in aluminum radiator without any additives like how dexcool coats the system in its early mileage then maintaining it removes contaminants and refreshes additives etc

The proper water to make a mixture would be distilled, if not distilled, demineralized or deionized water, purified water, city treated water, spring water, then tap water otherwise (at this point, plan to swap it out if at all possible with something else later)

The reason we are avoiding minerals is because minerals reduce the effectiveness of heat transfer a LOT. Try using an aluminum heat sink covered in aluminum oxide, it wont do very well(now imagine a radiator with that or sodium bicarbonate or calcium or lime coating the inside)

It also is abrasive, the metals make mixture conductive which will erode system in galvanic ways and other sciency ways (Im not the best authority to explain that)

If a radiator manufacturer told you to put "mineral water" in your cooling system they are trying to get you to buy more radiators and cooling system components, do NOT listen to that or promote ruining peoples cooling systems. if this was true, my well water would be supreme for a cooling system. (its not)
 

AuroraGirl

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I run 50/50 mix of Distilled water and Fleet Charge Heavy Duty truck coolant. Used this exact stuff in all my vehicles for the past 6+ years. Mineral water will build calcium scale in this area.

I have a big air dam that came factory.

You must be registered for see images attach
I got my x540 john deere with a 26 kawasaki and when I drained the coolant to put the proper jd coolant(it looked like a improper IAT green mix was in it) I drained the coolant and let it dry, the entire radiator, engine block had athick white coating which was likely calcium, lime, or one of many carbonates( or more than one)

I was able to flush it out with some creative solutions but had to be mindful to use things that wouldnt ruin the system
 

Carlaisle

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Opening on the shroud is 20", it has two stiffening rings roughly 1" wide in the opening, the duramax fan is 20.75"

Fan on the 454 and 8.1 are a 5 bladed metal. The diesel has a 7 bladed metal. The Duramax blade is a common upgrade for the 6.5. The 454/8.1 34×17 double core van radiator is unobtanium at the moment.

Just going to throw the ford fan on for now. Zero doubt it will keep it cool.
A few corrections are needed for 1997+ model years. The 5 blade fan was never installed on any big block. The 6.5 diesel received a 9 blade fan, but it was different from the big block fan. The diameter is the same, but the blades look shorter than on the big block. All 454 and at least some of the 8.1 engines came with a 9 blade steel fan. I don't know if it will bolt up/fit on the small block, but the big block fan will suck children and small adults into the grill when the clutch engages. It does sound like a Cessna on take off but if you have an overheating problem with that fan the fan blade isn't the problem. I have no knowledge of a 7 blade fan.
 

Frank Enstein

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So are tomatoes!

The rad vendors used to recommend distilled circa 1994 but by the early 2000's they started recommending Drinking water instead. I miss spoke with Mineral water. I meant to say water with some minerals. My Bad.
 

L31MaxExpress

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A few corrections are needed for 1997+ model years. The 5 blade fan was never installed on any big block. The 6.5 diesel received a 9 blade fan, but it was different from the big block fan. The diameter is the same, but the blades look shorter than on the big block. All 454 and at least some of the 8.1 engines came with a 9 blade steel fan. I don't know if it will bolt up/fit on the small block, but the big block fan will suck children and small adults into the grill when the clutch engages. It does sound like a Cessna on take off but if you have an overheating problem with that fan the fan blade isn't the problem. I have no knowledge of a 7 blade fan.
My buddy has a 99 K2500 and I have the fans that came off both 01/02 Express 8.1L engines that I own. ALL 3 are the same 5 bladed fan. I have a 7 bladed fan off a 6.5L Turbo Diesel van as well.
 
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