NBS Front Brake Swap for OBS Trucks

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Schurkey

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JB6? My suburban is a '92 K1500 4wd. After Googling, I would say yes...
Googling??? Why are you using Google?

LOOK at the SPID decal in the glovebox. If the VIN number on the decal matches the VIN on your truck, and if it says "JB6", the truck was built with JB6 brakes

JB6 = Low-drag calipers in front with 1.25" thick rotors, 11.x Duo-Servo drums in the rear. Big booster, big step-bore "Quick Take-Up" master cylinder. Not a bad system at all. That's what I upgraded my '88 K1500 to, from JN3.

JB5 would be the same front brakes, same booster/master, but crappy 254mm (10") Leading/Trailing drums in back. But I don't think the Suburbans ever got the horrible 10" L/T drums.

JB7 would be even bigger, non-low-drag front brakes, and 13" rear drums. I bet you'd have to have a full-float axle for those rear drums to fit. (Not likely on a 1500, but if the right option boxes were checked, it might be possible.)


Low drag, please explain??
Calipers are machined to allow the square-cut seal to retract the piston more than typical. Therefore the pads don't drag on the rotor, therefore GM achieves 0.000000003 percent better fuel economy which probably also improves emissions compliance.

The low-drag calipers require a special "Quick Take-Up" "Step-Bore" master cylinder, because they need a gush of fluid at low pressure to take up the extra pad-to-rotor clearance before braking even begins. The QTU master has three chambers instead of the usual two--there's a large-diameter low-pressure chamber at the rear of the cylinder, but the two high-pressure chambers are of normal diameter, therefore normal pedal effort. Regular master cylinders don't have the capacity for fluid movement unless the cylinder bore is huge. And if the cylinder bore is huge...the pedal effort goes way up. So if the booster fails, you'll need both feet, all your weight, and a big squirt of adrenaline to stop the truck. IF your wife or kids are driving, I hope your truck and medical insurance is paid-up.

But as I understand it, you're scrapping the low-drag calipers, so you won't need a QTU master.

I was planning to take the HB and MC from the '02 2500 suburban but was already removed from this suburban before I could get to it at PNP, so I have to find another candidate...I saw the difference between the 1500 and the 2500 NBS suburban brakes and I would like the 2500 brakes on my burb if possible.
Bigger brakes done correctly are not a bad thing. You're acting as a brake engineer, it's your responsibility to assure that all the parts work together, you don't upset the brake balance front-to-rear, and you don't screw up the hydraulic ratio between master cylinder and wheel cylinders (including calipers.)

If you swap to GMT800 brakes, you'd better take everything so you still have a "matched set" of components--including the rear brakes. I don't know what if anything is different at the rear. But YOU better know.

Me? I upgraded my K1500 pickup to the brake system your 'Burban has now. I'm perfectly happy with it. So I'm a bit mystified why you feel it necessary to expend time, money, effort, and enthusiasm to upgrade to GMT800 stuff. I just hope you do it wisely, and I hope you do it because you're not satisfied with what you have, and what you have is WORKING PROPERLY. It would be a shame to find that you've upgraded the brakes only to discover that the reason you were unhappy with the existing brakes was because the rear brake hose was partially plugged, or the power booster was weak, or some other defect led you to believe your brakes were substandard when they merely needed repair.
 
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81nascar

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Well I did the upgrade as well.. Fronts from a 07 Tahoe and rear from a 04 Denali that I parted out. Still have yet to drive it. I also upgraded to the nbs master to go along with the brakes and a Willwood adjustable proportioning valve to fine tune to my liking.. The rears were a bit of work. I have the rectangle flange. No amount of "hogging " the holes out was going to make the spacer work safely.. so I welded the holes up and added some material then drilled new holes for it all to work.. Front was pretty easy once the ball joint holes were reamed..
 

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81nascar

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Got a photo of how the park brake cables attach? I see that they're there, but not how they connect.
I do not.. They aren't hooked up yet.. The old Denali hardware was toast and nobody intown at the time had all the pieces to put in there the day I was working on it so I left it out.. Once I drive it around and get a feel for the system then I will figure a way to adapt them and just order some parts.. I think I can just adapt the line from a nbs short bed. I kept the Denali line for reference.. That line you see is just my new old cable from the drums. I had completely replaced all of the brake system parts on the frame , but after I did that I read about this thread and looked into adding the discs.. Nothing like doing stuff twice.. One of those while it's apart things ..
 

98k2500454

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the 2500 and 3500 should be almost plug and play after swapping in the knuckles everything else should line up with no issues GM didn't really change the 2500 and 3500 trucks just little things here and there i just swapped in the rear brakes off a 2006 GMC 2500HD into my 98 K2500 Silverado with no issues
 

Blubyu

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You want the knuckles, hubs and CV half shafts off a nbs half ton. Spindles are for 2wd.

Now is a good time to refresh bjs, tie rods, pitman and idler, that way you wont need another alignment when they go.

I have the write up with pictures, pm me with your email
Can I get the original write up with photos, trying to track down everything I need to get this upgrade done on my 97 k1500
 

mudpie

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I've got a 96 C2500HD....(edit)

I withdraw the question. I'll figure it out
 
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Schurkey

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I have a '97 K2500 with JD7 brakes. Same brakes as what you have, but with hydroboost instead of a vacuum booster.

They absolutely DO NOT suck. There's nothing wrong with the braking foundation--rotor size, caliper piston size, drum/shoe size, etc.

Fix the brakes you have, instead of "upgrading" to what could be headache-intensive rear discs.

I do give you credit for considering OEM parts from a 2500HD, instead of garbage aftermarket "kits" with poor engineering and pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey parts selection.

In particular, get the ABS bled properly, which requires a scan tool. Flush the old brake fluid. Before you do that, rebuild or replace the calipers and wheel cylinders, and make sure the brake hoses aren't plugged. If the rear brake hose plugs the vehicle still stops straight, and with a reasonably-high pedal...but with excessive force on the pedal. Lots of folks can't tell that the rear brakes don't work.
 

Osteoblast

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Credit goes to Rocky Thornton:

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If you do this brake swap on your OBS truck you will be amazed at the difference. Your best bet would be to go to the auto salvage yard and buy a pair of steering knuckles complete with hubs, brake rotors, calipers, ABS sensors, etc. I got mine off a 2000 Z-71 which had 12-inch rotors for use with 16-inch wheels. Since I have 17-inch wheels, I bought 13-inch rotors and calipers for a 2006 Z-71 and bolted them on the 2000 knuckles. If you do that, be sure that you get the calipers WITH the mounting brackets and they will fit perfect, Stay with the 2000-style hubs, because the 2006 hubs are different and the ABS leads will not plug into your OBS connectors. The 2000-style brake hoses are much longer than the OBS hoses and will need to be routed differently. The NBS hoses will clip directly onto your frame-mounted brackets, but you will need a brass fitting to adapt your 3/16 steel lines to the hoses that are designed for 1/4 steel lines. The NBS brake hoses have 2 metal brackets crimped onto them for mounting the hoses along the way to the frame. I pried-off the bigger bracket and discarded it. I pried-off the smaller bracket and modified it for reuse. You will see what I am talking about when you see the pictures.

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I ordered a tapered reamer off Ebay for a 2-inch per foot taper and reamed the NBS knuckles with a ratchet & socket until the larger OBS ball joint studs fit perfectly. The tierod stud hole was the same on both, just had to turn the tierod 180-degrees. The hubs were different but the OBS axles fit the NBS hubs perfectly. The ABS wires plugged right in,too. Even the NBS brake hoses fit the OBS brake lines perfect. I went to the NAPA parts store for fresh calipers and rotors and made another huge discovery. The '06-up trucks went to a 13-inch rotor and bigger dual piston calipers that fit right on the '05-back NBS knuckles. The 13-inch setup requires at least 17-inch wheels, as mine barely clear the calipers. The 2010
trucks went to 14-inch rotors that would require 18-inch wheels, but the new 13-inch setup I have now is all the brakes I need. They have already saved my ass a couple of times while towing a trailer behind idiot drivers. I am so happy to have factory engineered readily available big brakes on the front of my Yukon 4x4.

You can buy the reamer off Ebay for $110 total, item no. 200633129977, and do it yourself with a ratchet & socket. Have an OBS upper and lower ball joint handy to check your progress as you ream. When I was reaming the hole for the lower ball joint, I had an old axle shaft handy, too. When I had reamed the lower hole enough for the lower ball joint stud to go thru, I put the lower ball joint in the knuckle and put the axle into the hub to check for clearance between the top of the lower ball joint and the CV joint of the axle shaft. I think I had to ream the hole a little more for clearance, and I may have had to use a flat washer under the ball joint nut so the cotter pin hole would align with the castle nut properly. If your truck is not 4x4, that won't be a problem.

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If your truck is 4x4, a minor modification must be done to the CV joint of the axle shaft. There is a small deflector shield on the CV joint that will contact the back side of the knuckle when the axle shaft is pushed all the way into the hub. That little deflector shield can be tapped-down all the way around so it does not rub on the back of the knuckle. The picture will show what I am describing. With those modifications done to the NBS knuckles and the OBS axle CV joints, you simply remove your OBS steering knuckles & brakes and install the NBS knuckles & brakes. You will have to turn your outer tierod ends 180-degrees to connect to the NBS knuckles. You will have to route the NBS brake hose right by the nut of the upper ball joint and up thru the middle of the upper control arm to the mounting bracket on the frame. You will have to make a small bracket out of flat metal to hold the brake hose where it comes up behind the upper ball joint. Use one of the 4 bolts of the upper ball joint to hold the bracket and form a loop on the other end of the flat metal to wrap around the brake hose. When you have adjusted the position of the hose in the loop, crimp it onto the hose just enough to hold the hose in place. You should make another small bracket out of flat metal to go under the nut of the upper ball joint to hold the brake hose at that location, too. Look at the pictures and you will see how the hose is routed.

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The brake hoses are different for right and left sides and they index to the frame brackets differently, so check to make sure that the hose fits the frame bracket notches for the side you are working on before you get too far along with the hose installations. I mentioned earlier that I pried-off and modified the smaller bracket from the NBS brake hose for reuse...I flattened the bracket and drilled a big hole in it to go under the nut of the upper ball joint to hold the brake hose there. You will see it in the picture. All that is left is to route the ABS wire along the upper control arm to the frame and plug it in, bleed the brakes, install the tires and make sure the brake hoses do not rub on the back side of the tires or wheels when turning both ways, and you're done. Your truck will be updated with bigger, better, factory designed brakes and can be serviced with readily-available parts anytime, anywhere. You will wonder why the factory did not build it that way in the first place. Your truck will now decelerate as good as it accelerates.

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Thanks again Rocky! -Mike
The pics seem to be gone.can they be found somewhere or reuploaded?
 
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