Suck Squeeze Bang Blow

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

grampadirt

On MEDICARE Officially Old
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
1,148
Location
Santa Clarita,Ca.
I totally comprehend how the 4 stroke works,the 2 stroke on the other hand is a puzzle to me.What does it do? Suck and squeeze on one stroke then bang blow on the next? I have the basic principle but it's still a mystery to me.I've worked on countless 4 strokes but 2 stroke not so much.

Any input fellas?
 

Erik the Awful

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Messages
7,837
Reaction score
16,154
Location
Choctaw, OK
Reed-valve 2-strokes tend to run dirtier because when the piston is moving downward, it's expelling the expanding exhaust while also drawing in air & fuel. It's like running too much overlap, but they still manage to make more power because they're firing every revolution.

-71 series Detroit Diesels run a little differently. Instead of using reed valves and ports, they simply have exhaust ports in the head, intake ports halfway down the cylinders, and a blower (not a supercharger in this application!) on the side of the block. The blower pressurizes the air, and since the diesel is directly injected into the cylinder, any overlap just helps push the exhaust out. They're still incredibly dirty engines, but I think that speaks more to its 1930s design and fuel controls.

Piston going down:
Exhaust is expanding, pushing the piston, and when the exhaust valve opens it (mostly) flows out
When the combustion chamber pressure drops and the piston is still moving down, the intake charge is drawn in

Piston going up:
The combustion chamber pressure rises and closes the reed valve or the piston blocks the ports, depending on engine design

Piston at TDC:
The air/fuel mixture is ignited
 

Pinger

I'm Awesome
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
6,004
Location
Scotland.
Wheeze, squeeze, please, more wheeze - that's a 4 stroke!

2 strokes are simple when you break down what is happening into 4 stages.
The firing/expansion/power part - obvious.
Blowdown - which occurs toward the end of the expansion stroke when the exhaust port is opened (either in the cylinder uncovered by the piston or some other mechanical valving eg, poppet valves in the head, etc). The purpose of blowdown is to lower the cylinder pressure to that of the transfer ports.
Gas exchange which begins when the transfer ports open and the incoming air and/or mixture is introduced to the cylinder in a manner that will flush out the remaining exhaust gas products - the pressure of which fell to that of the transfer ports during blowdown.
When the transfer and exhaust ports close and the piston is again rising, compression begins. Rinse repeat.

There are three scavenge models: Schnurle (loop), crossflow (deflector piston), and uniflow (from one end of the cylinder to the other). They all have their merits and demerits.
And two methods of air supply - crankcase scavenged (where the crankcase is merely a low pressure pump) and externally charged (mechanically driven blower and in some cases turbochargers).

The 2Ts we encounter can be defined by their BMEP which is largely dependent on their exhaust type.
4 bar: hand held, simple exhaust.
8 bar: outboards and the likes that employ 'compact branch manifolds'.
12 bar: high performance engines eg, sleds that use expansion chambers. (how expansion chambers work is mind bending!).

There's also the very big 'cathedral' 2T diesels that power huge ships and turn at 80-100 rpm. They have thermal efficiency circa 50%. Not much can touch that.

2T has been neglected. The best piston engines up until WW2 were aero-engines. 4 valve/cylinder and forced induction (supercharged) they were left for dead by the gas turbine/jet engine. If the gas turbine/jet engine hadn't killed them the 2T would have. The Rolls Royce Crecy and later, Napier's Nomad, had the 4T beat - but all the development went into gas turbine/jet engines.
At the same time, auto manufacturers returned to car production with the same engines as they'd used before WW2 (side valve units often enough) and it wasn't until the 1980s that what was common in aero engines (4 valve heads and forced induction) finally appeared for road use and another 30 years for it become common. 60 years after the aero industry would have abandoned it anyway for 2T had the gas turbine/jet engine not prevailed.
When you compare how much development the 4t has had for road use, the 2T has had next to nothing. Apart from the 'cathedral' diesels, only where the 2T's virtue of extreme simplicity/low first cost or light weight (or both) has been a necessity (hand held tools, sleds, light boats) have they had any attention.
In todays world - as was said back in the 1960s - ''the 2T will have to be revisited when NOx emissions become problematic'' (because the same power can be had with half the NOx creating cylinder pressure) - they could be of use.

All of that is probably more than you wanted to know!
Bottom line: a 4T is a complex engine that is easily understood. The 2T is a simple engine that is extremely nuanced in its operation. There's an expression in engine design circles: 'give the 2T engine to the 4T guy and watch him **** it up'. The Crecy and Nomad show there is still huge potential in the 2T - particularly in harnessing the energy in the exhaust gas that a 4T wastefully throws down the pipe.
 

Pinger

I'm Awesome
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
3,043
Reaction score
6,004
Location
Scotland.
Damn,there's alot going on in a very short time.Gonna take me some time to understand all this.
A typical chainsaw engine at 9500rpm will go through the whole process 160 times every second. Around 6 thousandths of a second for each complete cycle.
Wait until you see what an expansion chamber does - (creates a vacuum at the exhaust port to drag an additional cylinder's worth of fresh charge into the exhaust pipe then a positive pressure to ram it back into the cylinder just before the port is closed doubling the quantity of fresh charge to burn and doubling the power. It does all of that by using the original high pressure pulse when the exhaust port opened on the previous cycle. Neat!)
 

grampadirt

On MEDICARE Officially Old
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
1,148
Location
Santa Clarita,Ca.
A typical chainsaw engine at 9500rpm will go through the whole process 160 times every second. Around 6 thousandths of a second for each complete cycle.
Wait until you see what an expansion chamber does - (creates a vacuum at the exhaust port to drag an additional cylinder's worth of fresh charge into the exhaust pipe then a positive pressure to ram it back into the cylinder just before the port is closed doubling the quantity of fresh charge to burn and doubling the power. It does all of that by using the original high pressure pulse when the exhaust port opened on the previous cycle. Neat!)
So that's why most 2t dirt bikes always have an expansion chamber.Never had a 2t but a few 4t,most recent was a Honda XR600,loved that thing.Gone now :(
 

grampadirt

On MEDICARE Officially Old
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
1,148
Location
Santa Clarita,Ca.
A typical chainsaw engine at 9500rpm will go through the whole process 160 times every second. Around 6 thousandths of a second for each complete cycle.
Wait until you see what an expansion chamber does - (creates a vacuum at the exhaust port to drag an additional cylinder's worth of fresh charge into the exhaust pipe then a positive pressure to ram it back into the cylinder just before the port is closed doubling the quantity of fresh charge to burn and doubling the power. It does all of that by using the original high pressure pulse when the exhaust port opened on the previous cycle. Neat!)
A friend came over and brought a little tool that can monitor rpms,my saw reached over 10,000 rpm,not good.According to the manual 8,500 should be max.
 

evilunclegrimace

Does not always play well with others
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
2,400
Reaction score
2,507
Location
pennsylvaina
Reed-valve 2-strokes tend to run dirtier because when the piston is moving downward, it's expelling the expanding exhaust while also drawing in air & fuel. It's like running too much overlap, but they still manage to make more power because they're firing every revolution.

-71 series Detroit Diesels run a little differently. Instead of using reed valves and ports, they simply have exhaust ports in the head, intake ports halfway down the cylinders, and a blower (not a supercharger in this application!) on the side of the block. The blower pressurizes the air, and since the diesel is directly injected into the cylinder, any overlap just helps push the exhaust out. They're still incredibly dirty engines, but I think that speaks more to its 1930s design and fuel controls.

Piston going down:
Exhaust is expanding, pushing the piston, and when the exhaust valve opens it (mostly) flows out
When the combustion chamber pressure drops and the piston is still moving down, the intake charge is drawn in

Piston going up:
The combustion chamber pressure rises and closes the reed valve or the piston blocks the ports, depending on engine design

Piston at TDC:
The air/fuel mixture is ignited
Every blower is a super charger but every super charger is not a blower.
 
Top