Frustrate with my Chevy Tahoe 5.7 vortec

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1998_K1500_Sub

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And regarding the timing, I've had the reluctor wheel shift on the distributor shaft and f___-up the timing, this on my 1995 S10 Blazer 4.3L VIN W. Just keep this in the back of your mind if for some reason you can't get the timing right. You may need to look closely at the distributor.
 

Schurkey

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2000 Chevy Tahoe Z71 5.7l vortec

1. Sluggish.
2. Backfiring through the exhaust originally.
3. Poor fuel efficiency.
4. Smell of fuel in cab intermittently.
5. Exhaust backing up into cab (only happened once though but it was really bad, couldn't get it over 35 that night either.
Parked it to work on it. Been parked since October 20, 2021.
Several on that list could be restricted exhaust/plugged catalyst.

Backfiring through exhaust would more-likely be ignition timing related.

Cam timing could cause a lot of that...but how would the cam timing suddenly alter?

Failed ECM; or failed sensors/outputs could cause some of those symptoms. Scan tool needed.

Failed fuel injection "spider" or pressure regulator could cause some of this. Fuel pressure testing needed.


Parts I have replaced. And work I have done.
1. Changed oil. Running 10/40 full synthetic.
GM hasn't recommended 10W-40 for decades. Next oil change, consider 5W-30.

2. Changed spark plugs ( the spark plugs I took out had alot of carbon build up an were not gapped correctly )
Did you install the correct plugs? Have they fouled since you installed them?

7. Replaced fuel pump ( one of the guys broke the fuel line adapter so I had to replaced the assembly, when I did the fuel pump quit working so I replaced that as well)
8. Replaced the fuel pump relay. ( Reason the fuel pump stopped working)
What is the fuel pressure?

9. Replaced the cam shaft sensor and the crankshaft sensor ( the computer was blowing codes that were related to these sensors so I changed them out)
What does the scan tool show for "cam offset" or "cam retard"? The computer measures the difference in the synchronization between cam sensor signal, and crank sensor signal. They should be within 2 degrees at ~1100 rpm.

10. Oil pressure regulator sensor( because the first person I allowed to help me thought that's where the crankshaft sensor was and ended up breaking the sensor )
Oil pressure sensor. Not a "pressure regulator sensor".

Now the Tahoe just cranks but I can't get it to turn over.
"Cranking" and "turning over" are the same thing. Your engine cranks, but doesn't run.

There is a back fire in the intake. After a few adjustments the sound changed and now it sounds worse. Several backfires from the intake.
WHAT "adjustments"?

Backfire in intake can be from exhaust valves not opening, plugged/restricted exhaust including plugged catalysts, but more-likely from incorrect ignition timing. Thus the need to use a scan tool to look at that "cam offset" figure. Connecting a timing light might help--if the timing is not a full 180 degrees off. That would show "correct" when using a timing light, but still cause a non-running, backfiring engine. In fact, I think having the ignition timing ~180-out is very likely.

I think the cats are clogged but I don't think that would be the reason the Tahoe will not turn over.
It is possible for exhaust to be so plugged the engine won't run. But it'll almost certainly fire at least a couple times. Apparently, yours isn't even doing that.

one of my neighbors gave me another Chevy but a trailblazer with the whole top end taken apart needing a head gasket replaced. I jumped on it but that's for another post.
You're gonna love the ('02--'09) Trailblazer once you get it sorted-out. That is a world-class six-popper in a very nice chassis/body.

If this is a much-newer current-production Trailblazer, you've got a rancid lump of scrap metal and plastic.

Anyways I have adjusted the dotributor like 9 times so far trying to find TDC could that be the problem.
Yes. Doesn't matter how many times you've "adjusted" it, if you're not getting it RIGHT.

Also the vacuum lines crumbled in my hand when I went to move it out of my way. Working on trying to get them routed correctly to. Could that be an issue?
Probably not the reason it won't start. Might be a reason it doesn't run properly.

Ps. Someone said something about a lobed cam???? I don't even know what that means or how to check it. ?????
They likely mean that a cam lobe has gone flat from excess wear or a failed roller lifter. Yes, that's possible. No, not real likely. And the other cylinders should run. You'd most likely have an engine that ran poorly and made evil knocking noises.

I would hook up a scanner and see your cam position. If you cant do that then make absolute your not 180 out. Imo sounds like distributor is way off. Any codes?
YES.

You need to verify your distributor installation before you throw any more time and parts at the truck.
YES.

Search for "finding cylinder 1 TDC in a small block Chevy". There are YouTube videos and written instructions on the subject. Verify that the distributor rotor is pointing at the #1 terminal when the engine is at TDC.
TDC COMPRESSION for #1. NOT TDC Exhaust for #1.

If you don't already have a scanner that will read live data from the engine (there are several Bluetooth adapters and apps available, or dedicated hardware) get one and find out if you have any active codes. You'll also need to see sensor data, such as coolant temp, air temp, MAF airflow, manifold pressure, and oxygen sensor status. These will help tremendously.
YES. I don't have much faith in the laptop-computer/cell-phone software; but other folks use that successfully. I'll take a dedicated scan tool, thankyouverymuch.

And regarding the timing, I've had the reluctor wheel shift on the distributor shaft and f___-up the timing, this on my 1995 S10 Blazer 4.3L VIN W. Just keep this in the back of your mind if for some reason you can't get the timing right. You may need to look closely at the distributor.
The reluctor wheel does not alter the timing. It alters the synchronization of the cam sensor signal. With faulty synchronization, the distributor gets turned to "fix" the synchronization, but that screws-up the alignment between the rotor tip and the distributor cap terminals.

Having the reluctor wheel shifted could be a problem, but not for timing.
 
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MystyD

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Wow thank all of you. I do believe that the timing may be 180 out. The only code it has been giving me as of lately is p0452. The fuel pump is brand new I just changed it out. It is definitely getting spark. I forgot to put a spark plug wire on the ignition coil one night and tried to start it. There was definitely spark from there. You are right SAATR it's sort of like running head first into a brick wall expecting for it not to hurt. Now as for diagnostics. I have your every day OBD2 reader that's reads just the codes. Any suggestions on a good Bluetooth tool that can be used that isnt to expensive that can help me run some diagnostics on the engine. The MAF I forgot all about that part. It has to be connected on the vortex engine for it to run period correct? Just curious what's the difference between the vortec engine and the older Chevy small blocks.
Shurkey thank you very much you really helped out with the way you explained and corrected me in my wording I understand things alot better now and what I should be doing. I am in a competition with the guys on this and seriously need a victory for s*** talking rights if not anything else. Much appreciation to all of you.
I will get to work on the diagnostics and keep you updated on this post on the progress and if I get stumped definitely let you know on the data of the diagnostic when I get them.
Talk to you all soon.
Thank you
 

1998_K1500_Sub

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The reluctor wheel does not alter the timing. It alters the synchronization of the cam sensor signal. With faulty synchronization, the distributor gets turned to "fix" the synchronization, but that screws-up the alignment between the rotor tip and the distributor cap terminals.

Having the reluctor wheel shifted could be a problem, but not for timing.

Yup, when composing my earlier post I had forgotten that the 1996 and later L31 employs a different timing reference than (as I mentioned) the reluctor wheel used in the 1995 CPFI 4.3L, so my earlier comment about the "reluctor wheel and timing" wasn't relevant. My bad :rolleyes:
 

clgodwin79

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Damn! You guys always beat me! Lol

As soon as I read her post about what was wrong in the first place with the plugs being swapped up and hearing about the backfiring through the exhaust I immediately thought timing! Sounds like the previous owner, or whoever, got it way off, or 180 out for sure.

That will happen because the exhaust valves are open or opening when combustion is happening so literally it’s igniting and blowing through the exhaust.

As already stated several times, you can get it close by hand pointing the #1 on the cap and/or rotor if the cap is off, at #1 cylinder. But you’ll need a scan tool to dial it in at 0 +/- 2 degrees.

Let us know how it works out!
 

b454rat

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Don't agree with the exhaust being blocked. It would run for a couple minutes then die. But would hear it (or not lol) if there are leaks and the engine would start to struggle. IMO it sounds like timing is off. If anyone pulled the distributer and didnt install in the same exact spot, it won't run and backfire...
 

Chuckm505

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Have not done a distributor on a vortec but can’t you just do it like the older ones pull out #1 plug and bump it over till you feel the compression blow your finger off the hole and then check the distributor to see if it is pointed to 1 spark plug on the distributor cap?
Making sure that firing order will follow the correct order?
I am more familiar with the older points or HEI style system. Just wondering
I thought that the crank sensor was for timing the engine on the vortec?
 

SUBURBAN5

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Have not done a distributor on a vortec but can’t you just do it like the older ones pull out #1 plug and bump it over till you feel the compression blow your finger off the hole and then check the distributor to see if it is pointed to 1 spark plug on the distributor cap?
Making sure that firing order will follow the correct order?
I am more familiar with the older points or HEI style system. Just wondering
I thought that the crank sensor was for timing the engine on the vortec?
That's how I did mine and fine tuned it with a scanner. I also compared to a lot of posted pics and videos to ensure the alignment was as close as possible. I was still some 12degrees off lol
 

JeremyNH

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Have not done a distributor on a vortec but can’t you just do it like the older ones pull out #1 plug and bump it over till you feel the compression blow your finger off the hole and then check the distributor to see if it is pointed to 1 spark plug on the distributor cap?
Making sure that firing order will follow the correct order?
I am more familiar with the older points or HEI style system. Just wondering
I thought that the crank sensor was for timing the engine on the vortec?

Best way to be sure on a vortec is to remove the passenger side valve cover (the drivers side is a pain with the accessory bracket) and look at the #6 cylinder valves. Turn the crank until the timing mark on the harmonic balancer aligns with the cover post and if the last valve to move on the #6 is the exhaust valve then #1 is at TDC compression. If the last valve on the #6 to move is the intake then turn it over 360. The lifters can't lie.

Common mistake folks make is that they think Vortec distributors work the same as all distributors. They don't. The Vortec distributor only sends the spark to the cylinder it does not control retard or advance. At all. The ECM does that by signal wire to the ICM which directly fires the coil. The only thing distributor alignment does is to control the window in which the ECM can control the spark. If the contacts are open when the spark is sent then it doesn't make it to the plug and you get a misfire. But turning the distributor itself doesn't actually change the timing. The ECM fuels and fires based on inputs received from the crank sensor. The cam sensor plays no part. The crank sensor uses a 4 lobe reluctor which to resolve crank position and if the timing chain was properly installed cam position as well. But the crank turns twice for every cam revolution so the ECM needs to know which stroke (compression/exhaust) the crank is on. This is what the cam sensor does. It sends a single pulse per cam revolution when the #1 cylinder is at TDC compression so the ECM knows when to start the fuel and fire sequence. So basically when the crank is coming to #1 at TDC it also has #6 coming to TDC. If a cam sensor pulse is also received it knows that #1 is at TDC compressions and #6 at TDC exhaust. No pulse the other way around. Each crank sensor pulse after just means it's the next cylinder pair in sequence but it knows it is #8 at compression and #5 at exhaust if it's the next crank pulse following a cam pulse. The cam/crank misalignment code just means that the cam pulse is outside of the tolerance window from the crank pulse and the ECM knows it can't control timing within the coil-to-plug continuity window allowed by distributor alignment. But if you turn the distributor to clear the code you don't affect timing itself, only the degree window in which the ECM can control it.

I swapped to a 411 pcm a while back and I know that after a few seconds of cranking without a confirmed start the ecm will shift the fuel order (fire order is mechanically locked by the distributor) by a revolution in an attempt to start just in case the distributor is 180 out. Not sure if the black box does this.
 
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