'96 C3500 CCLB dually. How much is too much?

TerryH · Sep 16, 2020

4.10 gear. 454/4L80E. Bell Tech 5/7 kit with Air Lift helper bags. Would like to pull a travel trailer toy hauler that will weight about 12k, 1500 tongue weight. Curt 14k weight distributing hitch. Truck is in excellent mechanical and overall condition. Upgraded injectors, cat back exhaust. Pretty much stock from there. Anyone foresee any issues?

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stutaeng · Sep 17, 2020

Can't comment on the effect of lowering the suspension (cut/modified frame, etc.?), but pretty sure the factory rating on a bumper pull trailer was limited to 10,000 lbs. You have to do 5th/gooseneck wheel to go over that. Don't have access to my Owner's Manual at the moment, maybe someone can confirm.

stutaeng · Sep 17, 2020

Actually, 5th wheel only gains 500 lbs over bumper pull for a 10,500 lbs capacity with 4.10s. It does jump to 12,500 with 4.56s, again, 5th wheel rating:

http://assets.gm.com/manuals/chevrolet/1996_chevrolet_1500_owners.pdf

See page 4-52

I hope this helps.

TerryH · Sep 17, 2020

stutaeng said:
Actually, 5th wheel only gains 500 lbs over bumper pull for a 10,500 lbs capacity with 4.10s. It does jump to 12,500 with 4.56s, again, 5th wheel rating:

http://assets.gm.com/manuals/chevrolet/1996_chevrolet_1500_owners.pdf

See page 4-52

I hope this helps.

Thanks. I have the manual. I've read that these ratings were some sort of insurance deal back then. Seeing these newer half ton truck being rated at more than that tells me that the dually is capable of more than it's rating. I realize the rating is the rating. I was hoping for some real world experience if anyone had towed something similar.

Sam Cooper · Sep 21, 2020

Regarding real world experience, my biggest question would be about the lowering method. If you did a C channel in the rear, I would be concerned. Otherwise the truck should be able to handle it. My '93 could. My '89 pulls a 20K fifth wheel. My '79 was used and abused pulling equipment for the motion picture industry and has pulled upwards of 30K on a pintle hitch with a very cautious driver. All had big blocks. I would suggest increasing the size of your external transmission cooler to the biggest Hayden you can fit. Make sure your rear brakes are good and adjusted and exercise due caution. One note of caution, I am not a big fan of torsion bar hitches as they bounce too much. My '79 had an old school H-frame hitch that extended forward to above the axle and it never bounced or quivered like a torsion bar hitch. I would also recommend investing in a solid bar stock slider to protect the hitch pin. Just my two cents. Always be careful when towing.

TerryH · Sep 21, 2020

Sam Cooper said:
Regarding real world experience, my biggest question would be about the lowering method. If you did a C channel in the rear, I would be concerned. Otherwise the truck should be able to handle it. My '93 could. My '89 pulls a 20K fifth wheel. My '79 was used and abused pulling equipment for the motion picture industry and has pulled upwards of 30K on a pintle hitch with a very cautious driver. All had big blocks. I would suggest increasing the size of your external transmission cooler to the biggest Hayden you can fit. Make sure your rear brakes are good and adjusted and exercise due caution. One note of caution, I am not a big fan of torsion bar hitches as they bounce too much. My '79 had an old school H-frame hitch that extended forward to above the axle and it never bounced or quivered like a torsion bar hitch. I would also recommend investing in a solid bar stock slider to protect the hitch pin. Just my two cents. Always be careful when towing.

Thanks for your response. We lowered the truck ourselves. I have confidence in how the truck is lowered so don't think that the lowering of the truck is any concern. I've previously towed a race trailer grossing around 9k with it in it's current configuration but after researching the past few days am making changes to bolster up for the 12k toy hauler. I've ordered the Curt Class V hitch rated for 16k pull and 2400 TW. I've decided to forgo the Curt hitch and opt for the Blue Ox BXW2000 Sway Pro Hitch. I am adding an external trans cooler and converting to electric cooling fans when we install the 411 PCM in a couple of weeks. Local tuner doing the tuning. Guess we'll see how it does once the trailer gets here.

These crazy ratings were my concern more than anything. I also pulled the same race trailer with my 2011 Ram 1500CCSB hemi w/3.92 gears rated for 10.2k. The dually totally blew it away in every way towing the same trailer. Clueless why any of these trucks are rated the way they are.

stutaeng · Sep 21, 2020

Well yes, current 1/2 ton truck towing rating are sometimes puzzling! Perhaps inflated? Marketing? So you towed a 12k load for a 1500 truck that is rated for 10.2k? Does the Ram have LT tires? I'm not familiar with new trucks, but they are all very similar.

Just for comparison GMT400 3500 (factory assumptions) vs Ram 1500:

full float 14 bolt 10.5" ring gear vs semi-float axle probably 9" range?
6 leafpack with overload springs vs 3 leafpack (or does yours have that fancy air-ride coil setup?)
LOOONG wheelbase vs SHORT wheelbase
Hydroboost brakes with MASSIVE drums vs light, 4 disc vacuum-assisted brakes
4L80e vs some light, 6 or 8 speed gearbox that will always tends to downshifts under load?
Dually with LT tires vs P-series tires
290HP @ 4,000 RPM vs 390 HP @ ???
410 TQ @ 3,200 RPM vs 407 TQ @ ???
4.10 vs 3.92
4,000# payload +/- vs <1,800# payload?
6,500 lb curb weight vs 5,500 lb curb weight?

It's apples to oranges! Of course the dually is going to tow it better. Power is not the only thing to consider here.

TerryH · Sep 21, 2020

stutaeng said:
Well yes, current 1/2 ton truck towing rating are sometimes puzzling! Perhaps inflated? Marketing? So you towed a 12k load for a 1500 truck that is rated for 10.2k? Does the Ram have LT tires? I'm not familiar with new trucks, but they are all very similar.

Just for comparison GMT400 3500 (factory assumptions) vs Ram 1500:

full float 14 bolt 10.5" ring gear vs semi-float axle probably 9" range?
6 leafpack with overload springs vs 3 leafpack (or does yours have that fancy air-ride coil setup?)
LOOONG wheelbase vs SHORT wheelbase
Hydroboost brakes with MASSIVE drums vs light, 4 disc vacuum-assisted brakes
4L80e vs some light, 6 or 8 speed gearbox that will always tends to downshifts under load?
Dually with LT tires vs P-series tires
290HP @ 4,000 RPM vs 390 HP @ ???
410 TQ @ 3,200 RPM vs 407 TQ @ ???
4.10 vs 3.92
4,000# payload +/- vs <1,800# payload?
6,500 lb curb weight vs 5,500 lb curb weight?

It's apples to oranges! Of course the dually is going to tow it better. Power is not the only thing to consider here.

I was referring to both trucks pulling our race trailer not the toy hauler. Around 9k. Was downright scary if the wind was blowing or if you had to panic stop. Dodge went to rear coils in 2009. I have Air Lift helper bags inside the coils. 2011 still had the 545RFE 5 speed trans. 9.25 rear gear. It does have LT tires on it.

Even my wife commented how much more stable it felt and how much better the dually pulled the race trailer before we had gone 5 miles on the very first trip. The derating of the older trucks and the ridiculous rating of the new half tons especially are bassakwards from reality.

One way or the other, I'm going to outfit the dually the best I possibly can and drop the toy hauler on the ball and go. If it doesn't work I'll buy something else to pull it with. My bet is that the old dually will do fine.

92_Bahama · Sep 24, 2020

TerryH said:
4.10 gear. 454/4L80E. Bell Tech 5/7 kit with Air Lift helper bags. Would like to pull a travel trailer toy hauler that will weight about 12k, 1500 tongue weight. Curt 14k weight distributing hitch. Truck is in excellent mechanical and overall condition. Upgraded injectors, cat back exhaust. Pretty much stock from there. Anyone foresee any issues?

Add some headers, stack plate transmission cooler, and transmissions temperature gauge and you're all set! You're at the limit but it'll do just fine and pull much better than a 2020 1500 that is rated at 12k by the gubernment

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'96 C3500 CCLB dually. How much is too much?

TerryH

Lets go racin' boyz!!

stutaeng

I'm Awesome

stutaeng

I'm Awesome

TerryH

Lets go racin' boyz!!

Sam Cooper

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TerryH

Lets go racin' boyz!!

stutaeng

I'm Awesome

TerryH

Lets go racin' boyz!!

92_Bahama

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