C2500 Master Cylinder Upgrade

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Olskool4x4

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1994 Silverado C2500 Master Cylinder Upgrade to Dorman M630031, Brake Line Adapter: BLF 26 (1/2M – 9/16F). The new MC is 1 ¾ shorter, I wanted to use the same brake lines. I cut the mounting bracket in half and slide it forward 1 3/4in. I drilled to holes in it, put two bolts in, and I used the same lines.

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Schurkey

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This is supposedly a good upgrade for these trucks.
People take off a failed master cylinder, then they install a "good" master cylinder that takes extra work and adapters to fit. Then--surprise--the "good" master cylinder works better than the failed one. It's a miracle! Gotta upgrade from the "old" style to the "new" style, 'cause it made SUCH a difference!

No one yet has told me what is different in the "new" master cylinder design that is responsible for the improved braking. Maybe someone will actually pull one apart and describe the differences compared to the "old" design.
 

Supercharged111

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People take off a failed master cylinder, then they install a "good" master cylinder that takes extra work and adapters to fit. Then--surprise--the "good" master cylinder works better than the failed one. It's a miracle! Gotta upgrade from the "old" style to the "new" style, 'cause it made SUCH a difference!

No one yet has told me what is different in the "new" master cylinder design that is responsible for the improved braking. Maybe someone will actually pull one apart and describe the differences compared to the "old" design.

Bigger bore, especially for the rears, than the stepped bore 1500 design which blows donkey balls. Upgrade to the bigger single bore HD2500/3500 GMT400 MC for a bolt in solution that would give the same results. Nice thing about the bigger bore is that it reduces pedal travel, and it's my own personal suspicion that the crappy ass 1500 brakes are due to the pedal overcentering which stalls forward travel of the MC pushrod.
 

Schurkey

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Bigger bore, especially for the rears, than the stepped bore 1500 design which blows donkey balls.
IF (and I am not conceding this point, just hypothesizing) there's a problem with the step-bore master cylinder system, it's not the step-bore master--it's the low-drag calipers that make the step-bore master a requirement.

The bigger problem with the 1500 brakes is the hateful leading-trailing shoe design that doesn't self-adjust worth a crap, leading to a low, but firm pedal. And yes, rear brakes matter.


Upgrade to the bigger single bore HD2500/3500 GMT400 MC for a bolt in solution that would give the same results.
The low-drag calipers need a big shot of fluid before they even begin to slow the car. That's the reason for the step-bore--it provides that large volume of fluid (at lower pressure) to push the pistons up to the rotor. Then the high-pressure section of the master takes over to squeeze the pads.

Many 1500s got the 1" step-bore (the larger section was perhaps 32mm.) The extended-cabs got a larger, 1 1/8 step-bore, where the larger section was 40 mm. But the caliper pistons were also larger, and the brake booster was larger and more-powerful.

Nice thing about the bigger bore is that it reduces pedal travel
A larger master cylinder bore does reduce pedal travel IF the rest of the hydraulic system is kept the same. But it also increases pedal effort required. Slapping a larger bore master cylinder onto the wimpy power booster of the "regular cab" models may not be the best idea; especially if the driver is on the smaller, weaker side of typical. OTOH, if the driver has good legs, it might be a perfectly-fine upgrade.

When it was me, I bought the parts from a Treasure Yard to put the larger-piston calipers, the larger-bore (but still a step-bore) master cylinder, and the larger brake booster onto my '88 K1500. I've essentially gone from JD3 front brakes to JD5. The conversion got stalled over the winter, but I'm expecting to get back to it in the next month or so. I'd already gotten rid of the crappy leading-trailing shoe brakes via a 14-bolt, light-duty 3/4 ton rear axle, so the rears are actually more powerful than the 1500-series JD5 brakes.

and it's my own personal suspicion that the crappy ass 1500 brakes are due to the pedal overcentering which stalls forward travel of the MC pushrod.
Gonna have to look into that. Hadn't occurred to me. My initial reaction is that GM wouldn't be that stupid...but I've been wrong before.
 
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Supercharged111

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IF (and I am not conceding this point, just hypothesizing) there's a problem with the step-bore master cylinder system, it's not the step-bore master--it's the low-drag calipers that make the step-bore master a requirement.

The bigger problem with the 1500 brakes is the hateful leading-trailing shoe design that doesn't self-adjust worth a crap, leading to a low, but firm pedal. And yes, rear brakes matter.

Are the low drag calipers specific to the 1500?

The low-drag calipers need a big shot of fluid before they even begin to slow the car. That's the reason for the step-bore--it provides that large volume of fluid (at lower pressure) to push the pistons up to the rotor. Then the high-pressure section of the master takes over to squeeze the pads.

Many 1500s got the 1" step-bore (the larger section was perhaps 32mm.) The extended-cabs got a larger, 1 1/8 step-bore, where the larger section was 40 mm. But the caliper pistons were also larger, and the brake booster was larger and more-powerful.

You're advocating more that the front channel pushes more fluid than the rear than the rear pushing less than the front? Same but different. And didn't the larger MC and all that **** come on all trucks after ~91? Used to be reserved for extended cabs and later went to all of them?

A larger master cylinder bore does reduce pedal travel IF the rest of the hydraulic system is kept the same. But it also increases pedal effort required. Slapping a larger bore master cylinder onto the wimpy power booster of the "regular cab" models may not be the best idea; especially if the driver is on the smaller, weaker side of typical. OTOH, if the driver has good legs, it might be a perfectly-fine upgrade.

When it was me, I bought the parts from a Treasure Yard to put the larger-piston calipers, the larger-bore (but still a step-bore) master cylinder, and the larger brake booster onto my '88 K1500. I've essentially gone from JD3 front brakes to JD5. The conversion got stalled over the winter, but I'm expecting to get back to it in the next month or so. I'd already gotten rid of the crappy leading-trailing shoe brakes via a 14-bolt, light-duty 3/4 ton rear axle, so the rears are actually more powerful than the 1500-series JD5 brakes.

Well supposedly the GMT800 has a 38mm single bore and the single bore GMT400 has a 39mm single bore. The increase in pedal effort really wasn't all that noticeable, but the difference in feel and stopping power was apparent.

Gonna have to look into that. Hadn't occurred to me. My initial reaction is that GM wouldn't be that stupid...but I've been wrong before.

Ford did it, I can't see GM being any wiser. I swear the old square bodies stopped better. Looks like you snuck an edit in there between me reading and quoting.
 

Schurkey

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Are the low drag calipers specific to the 1500?
I think so. K1500s: my '88, my friends '89 both have them. The '94 I got parts from had them. My '97 K2500 doesn't. But four samples doesn't mean much.

You're advocating more that the front channel pushes more fluid than the rear than the rear pushing less than the front? Same but different.
What's important is WHY they need the step-bore; and that's inherent in the front, not the rear brakes.

And didn't the larger MC and all that **** come on all trucks after ~91? Used to be reserved for extended cabs and later went to all of them?
I think so. I don't know what year that changed, but the JD3 brakes went away in favor of JD5. They kept the dreaded leading/trailing rear brakes, though.

Well supposedly the GMT800 has a 38mm single bore and the single bore GMT400 has a 39mm single bore. The increase in pedal effort really wasn't all that noticeable, but the difference in feel and stopping power was apparent.
39mm would be about 1.5 inches. I don't know of a non-step-bore master for pickups with that large of a bore. What I'm seeing in my '97 service manual is 1" or 1.125".

I don't know what the GMT800 has for a brake booster, calipers, pads or rotor diameters.

Ford did it, I can't see GM being any wiser. I swear the old square bodies stopped better. Looks like you snuck an edit in there between me reading and quoting.
I had a friend that owned an '87 square-body when I bought my '88. His truck--like mine--seemed to stop better when shoved into 4WD than when left in 2WD. I fault the prehistoric K-H Rear Wheel Anti-Lock (RWAL). The RWAL was disabled in 4WD.

Yes, I often edit posts after proof-reading them. [Edit] Sometimes multiple times. [/Edit]
 

92Raiderburban

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People take off a failed master cylinder, then they install a "good" master cylinder that takes extra work and adapters to fit. Then--surprise--the "good" master cylinder works better than the failed one. It's a miracle! Gotta upgrade from the "old" style to the "new" style, 'cause it made SUCH a difference!

No one yet has told me what is different in the "new" master cylinder design that is responsible for the improved braking. Maybe someone will actually pull one apart and describe the differences compared to the "old" design.
ill say from experience the GMT800 hydroboost is a night and day difference in stopping power compared to the 400.
 
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