Random Misfire

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

BlueCollar89

OBS Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
83
Reaction score
75
Location
Emmett,ID
I don't think anyone mentioned this; but I'm dealing with the same issue so hopefully I can make this inquiry and either contribute to the list of potential culprits or get educated lol.

Is it possible the TBI needs to be cleaned up? I don't know much about TBI's quite yet, but I'm planning on rebuilding mine just to make sure it's squared away. It's my understanding they get carbon build up over time and I can only imagine that it could affect performance?

Might be a simple suggestion? Kit runs bout $31 on RockAuto; might be worth a shot?

If the TBI couldn't be the culprit, can anyone explain why? I picture a choked up TBI in the same light as maybe a gunked up carb?
 

df2x4

4L60E Destroyer
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
11,203
Reaction score
12,809
Location
Missouri
I don't think anyone mentioned this; but I'm dealing with the same issue so hopefully I can make this inquiry and either contribute to the list of potential culprits or get educated lol.

Is it possible the TBI needs to be cleaned up? I don't know much about TBI's quite yet, but I'm planning on rebuilding mine just to make sure it's squared away. It's my understanding they get carbon build up over time and I can only imagine that it could affect performance?

Might be a simple suggestion? Kit runs bout $31 on RockAuto; might be worth a shot?

If the TBI couldn't be the culprit, can anyone explain why? I picture a choked up TBI in the same light as maybe a gunked up carb?

The '96+ Vortec trucks use a spider injection system with individual fuel injectors for each cylinder instead of the TBI system that the earlier trucks used with two injectors inside the throttle body. I don't see how a dirty throttle body could cause a misfire in a '96+ truck, I could be wrong though.
 

df2x4

4L60E Destroyer
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
11,203
Reaction score
12,809
Location
Missouri
Actually now that I'm re-reading this, I see that the OP replaced the injector spider with a BWD brand unit a couple years back. That would be my number one suspect here. It would be nice if someone could confirm a way to diagnose that properly (and I'd be interested to learn) but if I were going to fire the parts cannon, that's the direction I'd fire it in.
 

BlueCollar89

OBS Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
83
Reaction score
75
Location
Emmett,ID
The '96+ Vortec trucks use a spider injection system with individual fuel injectors for each cylinder instead of the TBI system that the earlier trucks used with two injectors inside the throttle body. I don't see how a dirty throttle body could cause a misfire in a '96+ truck, I could be wrong though.

I appreciate the clarification. Mine's a 94'; would circumstances be different for me where as I've got the TBI system? I honestly don't know the difference between TBI or Spider Injection. I'll look into this for sure! Man, ya'll are like the freaking Encyclopedia of GMT400's lol, loving all this knowledge!
 

Zachary Cox

Newbie
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Location
Virginia
How old are the O2 sensors? What do you get for O2 crosscounts?

I replaced a little over two years ago and and have put 60,000+ miles on them sense.

But the voltage seems to be with the correct range. Is it possible for them to be bad and still give off the correct voltage?

Oddly enough, today I haven't had a single misfire and I've driven quite a bit today in town and on the interstate. I'm definitely lost at this point as to what it is.
 

Schurkey

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
11,130
Reaction score
14,027
Location
The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands
Is it possible the TBI needs to be cleaned up? I don't know much about TBI's quite yet, but I'm planning on rebuilding mine just to make sure it's squared away. It's my understanding they get carbon build up over time and I can only imagine that it could affect performance?

Might be a simple suggestion? Kit runs bout $31 on RockAuto; might be worth a shot?

If the TBI couldn't be the culprit, can anyone explain why? I picture a choked up TBI in the same light as maybe a gunked up carb?
The TBI may need to be cleaned and rebuilt. ANYTHING can wear out.

Not real likely. They're less-complex than a 1920-era carburetor. No tiny fuel passages, no tiny air bleeds, the only drillings are for vacuum nipples and large fuel passages. Small passages are more-likely to plug than large ones.

TBI is about as reliable as it gets. Actual throttle-body faults are rare. Most problems are solved with aerosol carb spray on the throttle blades and the idle air control passage--or the problem is a bolt-on--the TPS sensor, the IAC motor and pintle assembly, etc.

Actually now that I'm re-reading this, I see that the OP replaced the injector spider with a BWD brand unit a couple years back. That would be my number one suspect here. It would be nice if someone could confirm a way to diagnose that properly (and I'd be interested to learn) but if I were going to fire the parts cannon, that's the direction I'd fire it in.
I'd start with measuring exhaust-runner temperature looking for a cool exhaust near the port. Cool means that cylinder isn't firing.

If that doesn't work, a simple cylinder-balance test, using professional equipment...or more-likely, a test light connected to ground, with the pointy end lightly greased and slid between the plug wire and the distributor boot. Shorts the spark to a single cylinder. Any cylinder that doesn't drop manifold vacuum (or doesn't drop it as much as the other cylinders do when shorted) is suspect.

I honestly don't know the difference between TBI or Spider Injection!
TBI injects the fuel ahead of the intake manifold. the air/fuel mix flow through the intake manifold, into the ports, past the intake valve. The intake manifold is "wet" with fuel. there is only one or two injectors, the engine cylinders share the injector(s)

Spider injection injects the fuel at the transition between intake manifold and cylinder head port. 99% of the intake manifold never touches gasoline. The intake manifold is "dry". Each cylinder has it's own injector--no sharing. The injectors are tied together in a plumbing nightmare to a central control system. An eight cylinder engine has eight "legs", thus "spider".

The updated system uses eight individual electric-solenoid injectors instead of the eight tied-together spider injection system.

I replaced a little over two years ago and and have put 60,000+ miles on them sense.
"I" would be considering replacing at least the primary O2 sensors.

But the voltage seems to be with the correct range. Is it possible for them to be bad and still give off the correct voltage?
Yes. Which is why I asked about cross-counts. If the voltage is good, AND the cross-counts are good...the O2 sensor is probably OK.

I had an O2 sensor that worked great at low speed. Voltage AND cross-counts looked wonderful. At highway speed, the sensor gave me a false-lean indication, so the computer went pig-rich. Took me a long time to figure that out. A thirteen-dollar O2 sensor solved the problem completely--but not until I had a dozen hour of labor into testing EVERYTHING else.
 

PlayingWithTBI

2022 Truck of the Year
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
9,663
Reaction score
14,987
Location
Tonopah, AZ

Zachary Cox

Newbie
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Location
Virginia
The TBI may need to be cleaned and rebuilt. ANYTHING can wear out.

Not real likely. They're less-complex than a 1920-era carburetor. No tiny fuel passages, no tiny air bleeds, the only drillings are for vacuum nipples and large fuel passages. Small passages are more-likely to plug than large ones.

TBI is about as reliable as it gets. Actual throttle-body faults are rare. Most problems are solved with aerosol carb spray on the throttle blades and the idle air control passage--or the problem is a bolt-on--the TPS sensor, the IAC motor and pintle assembly, etc.


I'd start with measuring exhaust-runner temperature looking for a cool exhaust near the port. Cool means that cylinder isn't firing.

If that doesn't work, a simple cylinder-balance test, using professional equipment...or more-likely, a test light connected to ground, with the pointy end lightly greased and slid between the plug wire and the distributor boot. Shorts the spark to a single cylinder. Any cylinder that doesn't drop manifold vacuum (or doesn't drop it as much as the other cylinders do when shorted) is suspect.


TBI injects the fuel ahead of the intake manifold. the air/fuel mix flow through the intake manifold, into the ports, past the intake valve. The intake manifold is "wet" with fuel. there is only one or two injectors, the engine cylinders share the injector(s)

Spider injection injects the fuel at the transition between intake manifold and cylinder head port. 99% of the intake manifold never touches gasoline. The intake manifold is "dry". Each cylinder has it's own injector--no sharing. The injectors are tied together in a plumbing nightmare to a central control system. An eight cylinder engine has eight "legs", thus "spider".

The updated system uses eight individual electric-solenoid injectors instead of the eight tied-together spider injection system.


"I" would be considering replacing at least the primary O2 sensors.


Yes. Which is why I asked about cross-counts. If the voltage is good, AND the cross-counts are good...the O2 sensor is probably OK.

I had an O2 sensor that worked great at low speed. Voltage AND cross-counts looked wonderful. At highway speed, the sensor gave me a false-lean indication, so the computer went pig-rich. Took me a long time to figure that out. A thirteen-dollar O2 sensor solved the problem completely--but not until I had a dozen hour of labor into testing EVERYTHING else.

So the misfire was gone all weekend back came back on my way home from work this morning. I decided to see how it would run with O2 sensors unplugged knowing all it would do is throw a code and the ECM would run in open loop. I drove it around for about 30-45 and there was no misfire. The fuel trim was much better at idle and also while cruising on the interstate. Seems to run just fine without them and wasn't blowing any black smoke out the tailpipe.
 

Ken K

I'm Awesome
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
242
Reaction score
107
Location
Omaha, NE.
Yes, I agree with a lot of post check all of the base settings, fuel pressure, etc. But one thing is left out...CKP System Variation Relearn. Anytime a new engine, CKP, crank or VCM is install or new to the vehicle...a re-learn is required to allow it to see and remember normal speed increase on power strokes. The VCM takes a "Photo" of the speed up and speed slow down between strokes and remember this to tell when it does not match...meaning a misfire.

CKP tells which two pistons are on top, but CMP tells which cylinder is sparking to narrow misfire...otherwise no CEL. No P0300, or P0307 for #7 for example.

A scan-tool is used to monitor engine temp and RPM, but it has a feature to enable CPK Variation Relearn, enter. Other procedures maybe on the internet, or this forum, but you'l have to look for them w/o scan-tool.

Just one thing to eliminate. No mention of CEL? No codes! Good. Next.

Block wheels, close hood, all accessories off, install scan-tool and set to "Enable Crankshaft Position Relearn", key to crank position, press on service brake for VCM to see change. Start, run engine at idle until it reaches 150 degrees F. Hold and apply both brakes until done. Slowly raise RPM's to 4,000. Release gas pedal and let it return to idle. Let remain at idle for for a few seconds. Shut off and wait 15 seconds for short-term memory to be moved to long-term memory, then re-learn is complete.

Without this, it is running on a pre-programmed advance schedule and maybe wrong for the engines temp or fuel ration as it's running on backup mode. Like an open-loop mode. Timing can not be adjusted to properly control ignition and cause misfire without anything being wrong.

I am writing this from GM's eSI procedure for 98 Chevy C-Pickup 2WD.
 
Top