Bowtie Brody's Namesake 96 454

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andy396

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I'd love to put a gear vendors OD on mine but I just can't justify it as a need. It does everything I need it to do in stock form.

Tweaking the stock tune will definitely give you a change you can feel.

I'm on the fence about doing a 0411 swap to mine. I'm about to finally get around to swapping in a L29 for the old L19. It threw a rod a few weeks ago so this project finally moved up on the priority list. The L29 with a fresh rebuild as stock might satisfy just fine. We'll see.


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Christian Steffen

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Thanks for the advice! I don't want a ridiculous amount of power, I think it's all in the servicing and stock tune as to why it feels down on power, there's still some fluids I need to refresh and a few filters I need to change, along with a slew of sensors; and really the whole reason behind wanting shorties is not only to let the engine breath a little better and ease of installation, but to also lower under-hood temps, my BB stays hot as hell for a few hours, and in my research it's because of the manifolds; the Gear Vendors is interesting, I've only ever seem folks do 2WD trucks, I've never seen a 4WD truck with one.

Aside from o2 sensors, I wouldn't just change stuff for the sake of changing it, unless you have reason to believe they are going bad. I can't remember if you've cleaned your MAF but that would be worth doing if you have. (Make sure it's actual MAF cleaner)

I'll throw in my $0.02 on manifolds vs shorties vs long tube headers. Most comparisons I've ever researched show very little gain in performance over manifolds. I won't disagree with you on the pain in the butt factor of long tubes, especially on a 4 wheel drive truck. If you haven't committed yet, consider spending that money elsewhere.

What kind of performance is going to satisfy you. If you're not going to be satisfied until you can keep up with the 800 lb•ft diesel guys, better save up for a whipple kit and tranny upgrades. If you just want more off the line grunt, drop your axle ratio as low as you can and bolt on a gear vendors overdrive.

Going from 3.73 gears to 4.88 gears is a 30% increase in torque throughout the entire powerband. Think about that. Flip on the OD and you're back to a 3.80 ratio for cruising. Check out the RV salvage yards for used ones, then you'll just need the transfer case adapter.

What comparisons are you referencing? I would be surprised if the stock manifolds flowed as well, and had as good of a scavenging effect as shorties.
 

andy396

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What comparisons are you referencing? I would be surprised if the stock manifolds flowed as well, and had as good of a scavenging effect as shorties.

Scavenging comes into play more so with long tubes vs shorties. I'll dig a little and see if I can find some references and get back to you.


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Christian Steffen

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Scavenging comes into play more so with long tubes vs shorties. I'll dig a little and see if I can find some references and get back to you.


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I suppose so, yes. I would think shorties still do more than stock manifolds though. I look forward to seeing more info.

Also, not trying to call you out or anything, just looking for a discussion on it.
 

andy396

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I suppose so, yes. I would think shorties still do more than stock manifolds though. I look forward to seeing more info.

Also, not trying to call you out or anything, just looking for a discussion on it.

No worries! You have every right to challenge people like me who put out blatant all encompassing performance statements like I did :)

This is one of the comparisons I had on my mind when I said that about manifolds.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp-0312-headers-vs-manifolds/

I was also thinking about calculators like this one that estimate the ideal primary tube length. If you play with them they always recommend something longer than shorties.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/bestheader.html

With that said, I'm willing to eat my words to some degree as there's a few other examples of gains with shorties over manifolds, this being one of them.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0106-manifolds-vs-headers/

Finally, here's a great read that explains in great length what impacts exhaust performance. The short summary is long tube is best, shorties better but only if there's no other restrictions in flow.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-between-shorty-and-full-length-headers.1303/

Some long tube results on a 454

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/130048-454-headers-vs-maifolds.html
 

BowtieBrody

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Aside from o2 sensors, I wouldn't just change stuff for the sake of changing it, unless you have reason to believe they are going bad. I can't remember if you've cleaned your MAF but that would be worth doing if you have. (Make sure it's actual MAF cleaner)



What comparisons are you referencing? I would be surprised if the stock manifolds flowed as well, and had as good of a scavenging effect as shorties.

Cleaned the MAF 2 times now, once when I cleaned my K&N, and then re-cleaned it when I swapped to the Napa HD filter.
And the sensors is just a precautionary thing really, my CPS needs replaced and so does the pig-tail more than likely; so I figured I might as well refresh the rest of the sensors too.

What are anyone's thoughts on a bigger TB? I saw a BBK throttle body on Summit and it make me curious, is it a decent upgrade? Or would some porting on my stock TB work just as well?
 

Christian Steffen

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No worries! You have every right to challenge people like me who put out blatant all encompassing performance statements like I did :)

This is one of the comparisons I had on my mind when I said that about manifolds.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp-0312-headers-vs-manifolds/

I was also thinking about calculators like this one that estimate the ideal primary tube length. If you play with them they always recommend something longer than shorties.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/bestheader.html

With that said, I'm willing to eat my words to some degree as there's a few other examples of gains with shorties over manifolds, this being one of them.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0106-manifolds-vs-headers/

Finally, here's a great read that explains in great length what impacts exhaust performance. The short summary is long tube is best, shorties better but only if there's no other restrictions in flow.

http://garage.grumpysperformance.co...-between-shorty-and-full-length-headers.1303/

Some long tube results on a 454

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-general-engine/130048-454-headers-vs-maifolds.html

Great info Andy. I definitely will not argue against the fact that long tubes would be the best, but getting them to fit into anything 4wd would be a nightmare, it's hard enough getting shorties into a pickup. It is fun to play around with the primary tube length vs diameter calculators, unfortunately for a normal ish size primary (1.75") we need nearly 5' of header tube which would be hard to pull off.

Also, I suppose I should have mentioned the rest of the exhaust. I wouldn't recommend messing around with headers while maintaining a stock system, and honestly in my experience it's easier to just do a full custom exhaust rather than trying to buy something (as long as you have a welder).

If it was an easy swap, I would love to try swapping back to manifolds on my truck and running it on the dyno, just to have some good hard numbers.
 

Christian Steffen

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Cleaned the MAF 2 times now, once when I cleaned my K&N, and then re-cleaned it when I swapped to the Napa HD filter.
And the sensors is just a precautionary thing really, my CPS needs replaced and so does the pig-tail more than likely; so I figured I might as well refresh the rest of the sensors too.

What are anyone's thoughts on a bigger TB? I saw a BBK throttle body on Summit and it make me curious, is it a decent upgrade? Or would some porting on my stock TB work just as well?

I don't think you'll notice a difference, probably not worth buying anything. You could port the stock one and see what that does, its free.
 

andy396

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If it was an easy swap, I would love to try swapping back to manifolds on my truck and running it on the dyno, just to have some good hard numbers.

You would be my hero if you got real data on the difference!!!

I toy around in my mind with buying some L19 long tube headers and modifying them to look like these. If I could find some used that would entice me even more.

https://goo.gl/images/mGTRRY


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Christian Steffen

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You would be my hero if you got real data on the difference!!!

I toy around in my mind with buying some L19 long tube headers and modifying them to look like these. If I could find some used that would entice me even more.

https://goo.gl/images/mGTRRY


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Unfortunately, the lure of being a hero isn't worth all that work haha

And it would probably be worth a try. That is impressive that those actually fit in there haha

The thread associated with that pic was interesting as well. If you got that route, do a before and after dyno!
 
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