400hp 350 Vortec?

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els-

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Get a set of used fast burn heads from any of the dirt track guys (even racing junk will have them)
1.5:1 ratio aluminum roller rocker arms
2.00" Intake / 1.55" Exhaust valves

And get a 604 crate cam
Cam lift: .474" intake / .510" exhaust
Cam duration @ .050": 208° intake / 221° exhaust
112° lobe separation

If your taking the motor apart at all you'll be fine throwing some arp studs in the rods and getting them resized.

Your basicly building https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chev...CT400-IMCA-Sealed-604-Crate-Engine,71387.html and you already have most of it
 

minicooperzoom

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by the time you're done TRYING to get that "unicorn" running it won't even resemble the same engine you started with......just buy a motor that fits your needs.....i,ve been there and done that....**** the tee shirt too.

i'm sorry, but i'm just sick of opening threads that are total ****......carry on boys.....stock up on that fairy dust too.
I've got a massive jar of fairy dust. So far it has assisted me very well. It even prevented me form getting stuck in a mud hole that was up to the top of my fender wells haha.

Find a whipple supercharger, drop a slightly smaller pulley on it and call it done. You would have instant torque with 8-10 pounds of boost and it will work with your 100% factory engine.

If you want more when you rebuild in 2-4 years you can do a marine intake, blower cam, headers and a walbro 255 to see 500 crank horses. BTW .480 lift is the max on stock vortec heads but a spring and retainer kit will get you to .550 without machine work.
I do like the idea of going boosted due to the wondrous sounds blowers make. Is there enough under hood clearance for a positive displacement supercharger? Which would be better for streetability/drivability a positive displacement or a centrifugal?

Get a set of used fast burn heads from any of the dirt track guys (even racing junk will have them)
1.5:1 ratio aluminum roller rocker arms
2.00" Intake / 1.55" Exhaust valves

And get a 604 crate cam
Cam lift: .474" intake / .510" exhaust
Cam duration @ .050": 208° intake / 221° exhaust
112° lobe separation

If your taking the motor apart at all you'll be fine throwing some arp studs in the rods and getting them resized.

Your basicly building https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chev...CT400-IMCA-Sealed-604-Crate-Engine,71387.html and you already have most of it
How streetable would this combination be?
 

98 Nitro

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Magazines always get better than real world results , GMs latest 350 crate is very similar and rated at 357hp/407tqlbs.
You would definitely need aftermarket intake and fuel injection to come close or go carb.
A stroked engine will be easier to come close to your goal and Summit/Jegs sell GMs 383 block for around $1000.
 

slowburb

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Why 400 horses? Why not 400 #/ft? Way more attainable, way more usable, and actually achievable under the stock induction and computer setup.


Ask me how I know :)
 
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Blackwater

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I found this very informative. Maybe it will help. but the only thing I would change would be swap the carb they had on the dual plane carb intake to a sniper EFI 4bbl. It would bring more power and econ.
 

slowburb

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I found this very informative. Maybe it will help. but the only thing I would change would be swap the carb they had on the dual plane carb intake to a sniper EFI 4bbl. It would bring more power and econ.

It would also carry a shitload more cost than a carburetor. Worth mentioning because of the budget friendly theme of the whole video.

So basically, that was a stock replacement TBI engine, outfitted with a pair of vortecs, a big flat tappet comp cam, an intake, and a better carb. For truck guys going in a mostly factory application, this doesn't seem all that straight forward or objective, because the TBI trucks have well, TBI's, not 4 barrel vacuum secondary carbs. Anyways, they made a crapton of power with the new setup, but swapping bigger/better parts onto a TBI crate motor and making more power is like falling out of a boat and hitting water.

Look at the numbers:
1st configuration:
235 hp @ 4000 RPM
335 tq @ 3200 RPM

2nd configuration:
365 hp @ 5600 RPM
397 tq @ 4000 RPM

Yes, that's a crapton more output. BUT, it moved wayyyy up the tach, too. In other words, in "stock" form, the engine's powerband was set to peak under normal every day street driving conditions...all power in well before 5000 RPM. Built up, we see the peak torque has increased at 800 RPM, which means you can't utilize the power unless you want to run the engine at 4000 RPM. Same with horsepower...peak moved from 4000 RPM to 5600 RPM, up 1600 RPM on the tach. This illustrates what happens when you increase cam size specs. Is it better? Depends on your application and intended use. May require a looser torque converter or gear/tire change to really use the power in a street-duty truck. The engine in its modified state seems like it would be a nice fit in a lighter vehicle like a muscle or pony car rather than a heavy pickup.

Did you see the electric water pump on the engine? Did you notice that there was no real accessory drive on the front of it at all? This is part of where magazines and TV shows can make numbers on dyno machines that aren't really attainable in the real world.


There are other things to note here, but this seems like enough for now.


please share your experiences...

The L31 in my Suburban is built up to around 400 ft/#. Worked over factory vortec heads from summit racing with trick springs and retainers (to avoid machine work), ported GM lower intake, GM "Ramjet" or "HT383" or "marine" cam (part number ending "395"), 1.6:1 full roller rockers, mid-length headers, full exhaust, a tune, and a few other goodies. This motor propels my loaded down 6000# 4x4 lifted/big tire Suburban beyond my expectations. I've performed other drivetrain mods to complement the setup, namely a warmer torque converter and taller gears, and this of course improves performance also, but any buildup should be looked at in this manner, as a full combination of logically matched parts, instead of a mish mosh of unmatched stuff. The point being that even with the engine that was built up in the video, it didn't reach 400 horses and the peak of 365 was rated at 5600 RPM, so a bigger cam to make 400 horses would slide the output even further up the tach to likely beyond 6000 RPM, and that's not even doable with the stock intake setup and computer. It seems like I have the L31 in my Suburban built up to close to the performance limitations of the fueling system and computer. I know if I could swap intakes it would make more power. No question. But, if I swapped intakes, I'd probably swap to the ZZ4 cam also, so it's just like anything else you're never done with. How fa$t do you want to go?
 

Blackwater

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It would also carry a shitload more cost than a carburetor. Worth mentioning because of the budget friendly theme of the whole video.

So basically, that was a stock replacement TBI engine, outfitted with a pair of vortecs, a big flat tappet comp cam, an intake, and a better carb. For truck guys going in a mostly factory application, this doesn't seem all that straight forward or objective, because the TBI trucks have well, TBI's, not 4 barrel vacuum secondary carbs. Anyways, they made a crapton of power with the new setup, but swapping bigger/better parts onto a TBI crate motor and making more power is like falling out of a boat and hitting water.

Look at the numbers:
1st configuration:
235 hp @ 4000 RPM
335 tq @ 3200 RPM

2nd configuration:
365 hp @ 5600 RPM
397 tq @ 4000 RPM

Yes, that's a crapton more output. BUT, it moved wayyyy up the tach, too. In other words, in "stock" form, the engine's powerband was set to peak under normal every day street driving conditions...all power in well before 5000 RPM. Built up, we see the peak torque has increased at 800 RPM, which means you can't utilize the power unless you want to run the engine at 4000 RPM. Same with horsepower...peak moved from 4000 RPM to 5600 RPM, up 1600 RPM on the tach. This illustrates what happens when you increase cam size specs. Is it better? Depends on your application and intended use. May require a looser torque converter or gear/tire change to really use the power in a street-duty truck. The engine in its modified state seems like it would be a nice fit in a lighter vehicle like a muscle or pony car rather than a heavy pickup.

Did you see the electric water pump on the engine? Did you notice that there was no real accessory drive on the front of it at all? This is part of where magazines and TV shows can make numbers on dyno machines that aren't really attainable in the real world.


There are other things to note here, but this seems like enough for now.




The L31 in my Suburban is built up to around 400 ft/#. Worked over factory vortec heads from summit racing with trick springs and retainers (to avoid machine work), ported GM lower intake, GM "Ramjet" or "HT383" or "marine" cam (part number ending "395"), 1.6:1 full roller rockers, mid-length headers, full exhaust, a tune, and a few other goodies. This motor propels my loaded down 6000# 4x4 lifted/big tire Suburban beyond my expectations. I've performed other drivetrain mods to complement the setup, namely a warmer torque converter and taller gears, and this of course improves performance also, but any buildup should be looked at in this manner, as a full combination of logically matched parts, instead of a mish mosh of unmatched stuff. The point being that even with the engine that was built up in the video, it didn't reach 400 horses and the peak of 365 was rated at 5600 RPM, so a bigger cam to make 400 horses would slide the output even further up the tach to likely beyond 6000 RPM, and that's not even doable with the stock intake setup and computer. It seems like I have the L31 in my Suburban built up to close to the performance limitations of the fueling system and computer. I know if I could swap intakes it would make more power. No question. But, if I swapped intakes, I'd probably swap to the ZZ4 cam also, so it's just like anything else you're never done with. How fa$t do you want to go?


The problem with TBI is you cant get enough air in the engine. The heads are restrictive and doesn't respond well with a bigger cam. You cant get a 4bbl TBI. That's why a lot of people got a set of after-market heads, dual plane intake and 4bbl carb. This setup with a like Holly sniper EFI would be awesome. a good set of heads makes the engine. A cam refines it. Engine masters did a segment on home porting heads as well. There is such thing as too big of a head. note: This really needs to be in a post on its own. when your port intake gets so large that the velocity lowers to where the fuel and air don't mix well. This means not enough bottom end. The way the car makers makes emissions is restricting the engine enough to lower emissions. When you open it all up and gain peak performance from your stock bottom end your emissions goes to crap and your econ goes up. Basically uses less fuel but not burning all the fuel mixture. So if the OP can find vortec heads, cheep duel plane and add the 4bbl TBI and he will get better performance and fuel econ. He would just have to keep it for a long time to reap the benefits.
 

minicooperzoom

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Why 400 horses? Why not 400 #/ft? Way more attainable, way more usable, and actually achievable under the stock induction and computer setup.


Ask me how I know :)
Because if I am going to have my engine completely torn apart for a rebuild why only gain 45 ft lbs? Being a truck motor it will still make more torque than horsepower. Thus if I am making 400 hp then I should (in theory) make over 400 ft lbs. After all there is like a 100 number difference between the stock outputs. I believe our computers are different? Being that mine is a 1998 and yours is 1996? I'm not sure as to what the differences are but I know that HP Tuners can't be used on 1997 and older Vortec's

The L31 in my Suburban is built up to around 400 ft/#. Worked over factory vortec heads from summit racing with trick springs and retainers (to avoid machine work), ported GM lower intake, GM "Ramjet" or "HT383" or "marine" cam (part number ending "395"), 1.6:1 full roller rockers, mid-length headers, full exhaust, a tune, and a few other goodies. This motor propels my loaded down 6000# 4x4 lifted/big tire Suburban beyond my expectations. I've performed other drivetrain mods to complement the setup, namely a warmer torque converter and taller gears, and this of course improves performance also, but any buildup should be looked at in this manner, as a full combination of logically matched parts, instead of a mish mosh of unmatched stuff. The point being that even with the engine that was built up in the video, it didn't reach 400 horses and the peak of 365 was rated at 5600 RPM, so a bigger cam to make 400 horses would slide the output even further up the tach to likely beyond 6000 RPM, and that's not even doable with the stock intake setup and computer. It seems like I have the L31 in my Suburban built up to close to the performance limitations of the fueling system and computer. I know if I could swap intakes it would make more power. No question. But, if I swapped intakes, I'd probably swap to the ZZ4 cam also, so it's just like anything else you're never done with. How fa$t do you want to go?
Interesting. Granted I am only running at around the 4500 lbs mark with my truck being a regular cab step side 4x4. Fast enough to keep up with (if not out run) my buddies 6.0L LS k20 haha
 
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